Andie developed a certain fascination with British men at a very young age.Raised on a steady diet of Brit-pop bands like Duran Duran and the British TV series The Adventures of Black Beauty, Andie spent much of her teen years dreaming about someday landing her own version of Simon LeBon.
Now 36 years-old and well past the smarmy influences of her teen years, Andie admits she still gets a bit weak in the knees every time she hears a refined British accent. She hasn't exactly been holding out for a British guy, but her past certainly might help explain her current 500-count pure mutton bedsheets.
Andie's best friend Sarah recently came across a nice looking British gentleman on the popular dating site match.com, so of course Sarah couldn't help but pass along his profile to Andie. Andie didn't belong to match.com, but she perused the gentleman's profile for a few minutes and she certainly liked what she saw.
Simon was a single and successful British construction foreman living in Andie's hometown of Minneapolis, and Simon's profile reflected both his intelligence and a dry, witty sense of humor. He was handsome, and contrary to our American stereotype of the British, his teeth didn't resemble an unkempt picket fence in rural Wyoming. Acting on a whim, Andie joined match.com and fired off a letter of interest to Simon.
Simon quickly responded with his own email, which Andie describes in her letter as "charming, friendly, and non-creepy." And as we all know here on PLFM, that's like getting a visit from the fucking Prize Patrol. Andie and Simon agreed to meet for a brief brunch the following weekend.
"Brief" it was not.
Simon and Andie spent nearly four hours together that morning, flirting and laughing and pretty much carrying on like a bunch of loose-moraled schoolgirls. Simon was much more attractive in person than his online pictures had indicated, and his voice instantly reduced her to a pasty marmalade. "I felt the long forgotten, floaty, butterflies-in-the-stomach feeling," says Andie. After breakfast, Simon walked Andie to her car and gave her a hug, followed by a round of passionate kissing that may have thrilled the participants, but likely caused innocent passersby to struggle with their recently ingested shrimp cocktails.
Simon sent her a few cute texts after their date, and called Andie three days later to ask her out again. Their second date went even better than the first, and from that point forward the two became virtually inseparable. Simon eventually confessed he had never felt like this about a woman before, and Andie felt exactly the same way about Simon. "You won't be my girlfriend for long, you know," Simon said with a wry smile, "I'm the marrying kind."
And so we begin a look at one of hundreds of Simon's gushy emails .... a few of which we'll disperse throughout this post.
From: Simon XXXXXXXXXXXX
To: Andie XXXXXXXXXXXXX
I hope your back feels better and you didn't work too hard on your day off.
Talking with you this morning was wonderful and it made my Monday morning feel like a Friday afternoon. Thank you!
I am so looking forward to seeing you on Thursday and know that the week will drag until then! Have a great Tuesday!
Simon
soppy pic but couldn't help myself (just don't tell anyone I'm a real softy, ok?)
If you ever wonder how the United States defeated the British Army in 1776, the last part of that email might help explain it. Softies.
In the ensuing weeks, Simon and Andie enjoyed romantic dinners and spent an endless string of passionate nights together. They took long walks in the park, and Simon happily introduced Andie to his beloved dog Rugby. Andie had never felt so much passion for a man in her life. They went on shopping sprees together, with Simon even footing the bill for a $500 trip to Victoria's Secret as the accompanying receipt attests:
From: Simon XXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: Andie XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
My dearest Andie,
It is six days since I first got to sit with you and look into your beautiful eyes as we shared ourselves with each other. Somehow, within that short time span, saying "my" in front of your name seems so natural and right!
I adore hearing your "hi honey" when you answer the phone. In my mind I can see your smile as we are talking. I hear the genuine excitement in your voice and a passion for life in your words. I know that when I see you today all of these things will be intensified immensely.
You already know that I like to be an open book when it comes to my emotions. In that spirit I want you to know that I adore you with a passion! The mere thought of you and the way your words lodge in my soul make my heart pound and enhances me as a person beyond measure. Your touch last Friday was so intense to me that it stays with me even now.
As we spend time together I want you to know that you can hold these promises as true:
1.) I will never hold back my feelings (good or bad).
2.) I will never lie to you! (no matter what).
3.) I will always treat you with respect, even in the throws of a heated discussion.
4.)I will always respect your wishes and opinions (I rely on you to articulate what they are!)
On a lighter note, the following rules apply:
1.) First and foremost you are a princess and will be treated as such at all times.
2.) Affection and passion will accompany my every action towards you.
3.) I am an Englishman and need my tea!
4.) Never, ever finish a day angry or upset with each other.
The final and golden rule is to put passion in every moment spent together. One life to live - love every minute of it.
You are an amazing woman and I am so thankful and in a constant state of wonder that you make me want to write everything I have here and more and perhaps that is why calling you "my Andie" is so soul calming, heart-racing right!
Simon x
1:45am P.S. Darling, we have just finished our call of 1 hour and 40 minutes and I find myself wishing that I had ended by telling you that despite all conventional wisdom that I love you and am in love with you. Good night my beautiful, wonderful you.
After soiling the entirety of Andie's new lingerie collection in a matter of six weeks, Simon asked Andie to start looking for a wedding dress suitable for a romantic beach wedding ceremony. Andie admits she was cautious, but she couldn't resist her feelings for Simon- he was exactly the type of man she had spent her entire life searching for. She was simply living a dream she'd had since childhood. "I only have one question for you," Simon stated, "gold- or platinum?"
From: Simon XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: Andie XXXXXXXXXXXXX
You ever need or want to follow your dreams my love, just ask for.
I will move heaven and earth to to get and give it to you. you are amazing and I see in your passion for both what you do to earn money now and in the future wealth of your writing great potential and remember that you have already achieved the greatest heights in both.
The rest of the world just hasn,t caught on yet
I love you my dearest love and long to have you in my arms again
Your ever loving
Simon
xxxxxxxx
As the relationship progressed, Simon even took Andie to a house he had hired his construction company to refurbish for them as a couple, and told her of his plans to purchase another cottage back home in Brighton, England, right next to the home of his family.
From: Simon XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: Andie XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Whenever you get this know that with every fiber of my being I love you. Thank you for an amazingly beautiful day yesterday and a soul quenching night.
I love you. I love you. I love you.
Your simon xxx ooo xxx
Exactly two months into their relationship, Andie found herself preparing for yet another romantic date with Simon when the phone suddenly rang. Andie picked up the phone to find a hysterical Simon.
Rugby, Simon's beloved dog, had run into the street and was struck violently by a passing car. Rugby suffered serious injuries, and Simon didn't know if the dog would survive. He was rushing Rugby to an emergency animal hospital 45 minutes away, and he had to cancel their date for the evening. Rugby would obviously need several major surgeries, and Simon promised to call her with an update as soon as he found out the extent of his dog's injuries.
Andie completely understood, and told Simon to just worry about his dog.
Andie hung up the phone, and never heard Simon's voice again.
Ever.
He didn't answer his phone, his texts, or his emails. It was as if he had simply vanished from the face of the earth.
Three days later Andie's phone rang. Frantic with worry, Andie rushed to answer but, unfortunately, it wasn't Simon. Rather, the caller asked if Andie had seen or heard from Simon lately. Thinking it was Simon's employer, Andie explained the harrowing phone call and the injuries to Rugby, but no, she hadn't heard from him since his trip to the emergency vet. Perhaps, she wondered, had the caller heard of any new information?
The caller provided Andie with plenty of new information.
"Simon is my husband, " said the voice on the other end of the phone.
Andie initially felt like someone had punched her in the stomach, immediately followed by a sudden urge to purchase a novelty t-shirt on eBay featuring a lollipop and the word "Sucker" printed in an extra large font.
"I guess Simon wasn't lying when he said he was the marrying kind," says Andie.
Some might also suggest he wasn't lying when he said "I will never lie to you!", but rather Simon simply forgot to include the crucial modifier " .. unless words are coming out of my mouth."
Simon wasn't single.
And Rugby wasn't hurt.
In fact, Simon's wife pointed out that Rugby was in fact her dog, and he was sitting right there in the living room as they spoke, probably licking an asshole that tasted remarkably like Simon.
The house in Minneapolis? Horse shit.
Cottage in Brighton? Nope.
His apartment? Nope. His friend Scott's.
Gold or Platinum? "Lead," Andie might now say, imagining a large target focused on a certain pair of gamy British testicles.
As it turns out, Andie was simply the caboose car in a long train of girlfriends Simon had hidden from his wife during their seven years of marriage. His wife only figured it out in Year 5.
Adds Andie:
I am 36 years old, I've had several long-term relationships, and I go on a lot of dates. I'm not a dumb kid; I have considerable experience with men.
I am also cynical by nature. The fact that this guy was able to snow me so completely is a testament to how good he is at what he does (basically he's a professional bullshitter).
I fell for him immediately, (not something I am prone to do, cynical as I am). I ignored my instincts and let my hormones and emotions take over. Never a good idea.
But of course, our story doesn't end there.
Simon abruptly abandoned his
A few months after Andie last spoke to Simon, she received a call from a woman in England asking about a man named "Simon."
The British woman had recently met a man named "Simon" in her local pub, where he worked as a waiter. The two started dating immediately, and after professing his undying love for her, "Simon" ended up moving into the carriage house behind her property. Simon was starting a business at the time, and had asked his new girlfriend to front $30,000 in seed money to help him get his company off the ground. She agreed to invest in his business, and seriously, does the author of this blog really need to finish typing that story?
Heartbroken and devastated after he disappeared, the British woman began researching Simon's past and tracked down several of Simon's ex-girlfriends, including Andie. "He's a con artist. He uses some women for sex, and some for money," she told Andie.
Andie had posted pictures of Simon on her blog, including the very picture we featured today here on PLFM. The British woman recognized Andie; Simon had posted her photo on the wall of the carriage house, explaining "She's my friend from the United States."
We'll let a remorseful Andie wrap it up:
So while I feel like complete shit, at least I am wearing fantastic underwear. Also, I have a plethora of hot little negligees for any future boy toys to enjoy (and they will, believe me).
He also bought me a new TV, a bunch of meals, drinks, coffees, the dress I am wearing in the photo at the beginning of this post, and a little playhouse for my cats. Another positive thing Shit Stain--I mean Simon-- did was pay my July rent.
The final positive Simon did for me was to give me a chance to warn the citizens of the Twin Cities and--hell, the entire world--to watch out for this fucker. If you see him, give him a good punch in the nuts for me, and, for the love of all things holy, DO NOT believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
If he tells you 2 + 2 = 4, check his facts.
I can also take comfort in these words of wisdom from the esteemed poet Bono: Instant karma's gonna get him, if I don't get him first.
I know this much is true.
Take a good look at Simon in our headline photo ladies, and remember that face.
We'd also like to hear from some of the other women duped by this guy, as I'm hoping some of them will find their way to PLFM.
And if you see him out in public in Minneapolis, Brighton, or anywhere else, feel free to launch the sole side of your shoe directly into his balls for Andie.
If you've been duped by a married guy online or through a dating site for singles only and can prove it to PLFM with emails, send us an email and the story behind it.
If you've been duped by a married man, feel free to fess up anonymously in the comments if you want.
If you got your sweet revenge, even better.
(You can find Andie's blog and a brief write-up of her experience at http://andiepants.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html.)
Simon is real good.
ReplyDeleteOn a personal note, I conversed with Andie for a bit, and she seems like quite an intelligent woman.
ReplyDeleteI know many people will come on here and say negative things about her as always, but I think she is a smart woman who got duped pretty bad by a very good con artist.
I never had any timing as to the emails I received- no chronological order- which may have been confusing.
But Andie did experience one of those mad-fucking passionate relationships we've all had at one point or another, and sometimes it's harder to use a critical eye when you are IN that situation rather than when you're sitting on the sideline like the view I just gave you.
Is she crazy? No.
Is she mad? Probably.
Hope everyone had a good weekend, I'm off to work on WWHM for this week.
It's sad world when whirlwind romance in itself is deemed suspicious. Sure, looking back he seems to good to be true, but doesn't everyone when newly in lust? Most of the time you're left feeling dissapointed when sanity returns, just not to that extent. Clearly Simon's suffering from some sort of personally disorder.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if asked to compile a list of red flags based on the tales of PLFM, unusually enthusiastic early displays of stereotyphical romantic behavior would be included.
I have to say, when I was reading his romantic, gushy letters, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, for his "rules" to be more along the lines of "YOU WILL CALL ME EVERY HOUR TO LET ME KNOW WHO YOU'RE WITH" or something of the sort. At least Andie got some nice stuff out of him -- I'd say the poor English woman who fronted him $30,000 got the worst end of the deal.
ReplyDeleteAre you deliberately redacting his surname for part of the post but not all of it? If you didn't mean to publish it, you might want to go through the latter half of the post one more time!
ReplyDeleteI got suckered by a married man once, and funnily enough, it was after a whirlwind thing with a guy who pretty much acted just like Simon--but without the whole married thing--and pretty much laid waste to my emotional landscape. Enter married dude.
ReplyDeleteI met him because he was upgrading our computer systems at work (I KNOW), and was from out of town, so when the flirting started, I didn't really think much of it. Hot monkey sex ensued, and it was fabulous after what I'd been through. Anyway... towards the end of that week, one of his co-workers pulled me aside and asked if I knew he was married.
No, and I felt like someone punched me in the gut. I asked married dude, who OF COURSE denied it. I didn't buy that, and a quick flex of my Google-Fu told me not only was he married with 2 kids, he was a pastor at his church. FML. First a bad breakup, now this. I seriously considered never leaving the house again.
Did I get revenge? No. I figured that married dude's life was punishment enough.
I will say that in hindsight that I had these experiences, otherwise I probably would have never been able to appreciate my fiance for the wonderful man that he is.
^I'm glad I had those experiences. I hate it when I leave out words.
ReplyDeleteIt's sad world when whirlwind romance in itself is deemed suspicious.
ReplyDeleteNo, it's not.
I have to say, I had a whirlwind romance in 1999 that very much reminds me of Andie's experience with this guy.
ReplyDeleteWe met online via a writing forum, we liked each others' work, we wrote friendly, casual emails at first, then swapped pictures, then we called, then we finally met. Fireworks. The sex was incredible. He wrote the most wonderfully romantic emails *ever*, filled with passion and humor and insight. Our phone conversations were hours long; we ran up a huge cell phone bill on both sides. Within a couple of months, he brought up marriage. I was afraid it was all going too fast but my heart overrode my fears.
However, unlike Simon, my guy really was everything he said he was. We moved in together, got married in October 2000 and we'll be celebrating our 9th wedding anniversary in a few weeks.
We still madly in love.
I just wanted to validate Andie; it *can* happen that way. Don't think it cannot. Just because this guy was a habitual liar doesn't mean everyone who acts that way is.
I would suggest in future (this goes for anyone) to be sure and meet friends/co-workers right away, as soon as it becomes serious. I insisted on having his work phone number right from the beginning and he took me on a tour of the company he worked for, meeting several co-workers. We also went out with other couples he knew or I knew, double-dating.
If he had been married, no doubt someone; his boss, his jealous co-worker in the next cube, *someone* would have said something to me.
I also insisted on being able to call his house whenever I wanted. I suppose a true psycho would be able to dummy up such things somehow but it would be a lot harder to pull off.
I'll have to agree that the English woman 30,000 poorer got the worse deal...
ReplyDeleteI know many people will come on here and say negative things about her as always, but I think she is a smart woman who got duped pretty bad by a very good con artist.
ReplyDeleteOf course. It's a classic female exploit. You don't need to reason with women. If you tune into their emotions, they'll agree to about anything. They'll manage their intellect for you. They want to feel. You'll 'bypass' their higher cognition. But you have to be good and move fast enough to keep their critical thinking minimal. Known for millennia.
Then, when the delusion wears off, they can blame their lapse in judgment on the guy. Bonus!
Anonymous at 8:14, he lied to her. He is to blame. No fucking bonus about it.
ReplyDeleteI own a very good bullshit detector, I think, and I didn't see that coming.
I had a romance like that once. I married the guy. We just celebrated our 20th anniversary. I guess the main difference was that we had mutual friends before we started dating.
You know, instead of all the ridiculous "defense of marriage" (i.e. denial of gay rights) acts state legislatures have passed, what we REALLY need to defend marriage is a nationwide database that tells you whether or not a person is married. You put in their name and whatever identifying details are needed, and it comes back "MARRIED" or "SINGLE." (It would be even better if it told me how many times a person has been previously married!) We should not have to hire a freaking private investigator to learn this very basic piece of information. One of the major reasons I don't do online dating anymore is that so many of the guys on it are married and pretending to be single. I haven't been snowed yet, but I know that if I play in that arena, it's only a matter of time.
ReplyDeleteoh dear.. that poor woman! =(
ReplyDeleteKinda reminds me of the time i was on an online dating site.. it all started fair and dandy, the guy seemed nice and was a real sweety..until i found out he was married and not only was he married but he SAID SO on the site and he just wanted "something more" because she wasn't giving him enough...well at least he was honest right?
Right??
I didn't think so either.
Funily enough, after that i stopped all that online nonesense. When will we learn ?
good post though...well for us anyway
Andie, if you're reading this site I just wanna say that even though I am pretty cynical I NEVER saw that one coming. Simon was spending money on you, not asking you to invest in his business. The Rugby accident story is completely believable. In hindsight "I'm the marrying kind" does seem a bit weird (I never heard a man say that except ruefully, laughing at himself after his third divorce), but ONLY in hindsight.
ReplyDeleteHi new reader. I just want to comment that I love your blog. I hope to read more
ReplyDeleteAs an Englishwoman, I feel I must defend our fair menfolk- there are some lovely ones over here if you feel like a holiday Andie ;D
ReplyDeleteThat's what happens when you objectify Brits. They fuck you silly and spend another woman's money on you.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 8:14, he lied to her. He is to blame. No fucking bonus about it.
ReplyDeleteShe got a few good bonuses--a thrilling experience, passionate sex, nice things, a story, plausible denial--all for not verifying and not wanting to know. It's a great deal! When an experience is this good, you don't want to find faults.
I own a very good bullshit detector, I think
Coming from you, this claim is dubious.
Me Thinks Anonmous 8:14 and 12:16 dost protest to much.... hmmmmmm. could he be the kind of person that SImon is...yes, me thinks so. or just a troll.
ReplyDeleteSimon should teach classes. I could learn a lot from him.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Anonymous 1:15 PM.
ReplyDelete8th grade called - Declaration of Independence signed in 1776, but the British Army was not defeated for good until 1783.
ReplyDeleteSimon is really good... it's assholes like that that make it difficult for anyone to trust the male gender.
ReplyDeleteI have to say my jaw was on my computer table as I read through this. He certainly is good at what he does, but good doesn't always mean literally good and in this case... it didn't. I feel horrible for his wife to have married such a jackass.
Heads up, ladies & gentleman...
ReplyDeleteWhen someone you are dating pays cash for a $500 shopping spree, that is a HUGE red flag! It usually means they don't want whatever they are buying to show up on their credit card or debit card statements.
My boyfriend is a divorce attorney and there are TONS of tips available to spot the married ones.
Another tip would be the fact he was buying her lingerie that early into a relationship. Generally, a single guy would not be bored with your current underwear wardrobe for at least six months or a year. This guy was deliberately looking to spice up his life and wanted to purchase the things for her that most likely his wife did not care to wear.
The minute I clicked on the receipt and scanned through it, the first thing that popped into my head was "he's married".
I went out with a guy I was madly in love with. We broke up and then went out a few times. The chemistry was always amazing. He asked me to go away with him for a business trip. About 1/2 hour after that (the copious vodka was probably responsible) he confessed that not only did he now have a live-in girlfriend--but she was pregnant. I have no idea how he thought he was going to pull off that trip. I have not heard from him since his little confession, but I am certain that if I saw him, I would suddenly contract "restless leg syndrome," ensuring him a lifelong career with the Vienna Boys' Choir.
ReplyDeleteYou know what is really creepy? Not the perverted fucktards on WWHM and PLFM who have never even come close to having any relationship with a woman.
ReplyDeleteIt's the guys whose writing strikes a little too close to home.
This is the kind of stuff me and my girlfriend write each other.
Brrrr
Ok not 'soul quenching night' but appreciative stuff.
ReplyDeleteI was almost duped by a married guy, and it played out like a really crappy romantic movie. We met in the store I was working at, hit it off, he said all the right things, so finally I invited him to meet me after closing time and we'd go next to to an all-night pool hall for some adult beverages and conversation (and maybe a few more adult activities if the night went well). As I was taking out the garbage when the dumbshit got dropped off... by his wife! I could overhear her telling him to 'have fun with the guys'. Since I don't have a penis, I don't think I qualify as 'one of the guys'. He waited until she had driven off, then walked into my store like he was Casi-fucking-nova. I actually saw him stash his ring in his pocket! He tried pulling out some of the same talk, and I told him I saw everything. He then said he hadn't told me he wasn't married, so he hadn't lied, and that his wife was 'understanding'. I told him I hoped someone put his balls in the paint mixer and had my manager escort him out.
ReplyDeletePoor girl...I know EXACTLY how she feels because nearly the same thing happened to me while I was stationed with the USAF in Guam 99-00. I met this fabulous looking Navy Seabee and he pulled the same scenario on me....we were inseperable for 4 months before he PCS'd back stateside and had made plans for our future once I PCS'd back to the US. He told me he HAD been married but divorced her because she got pregnant by another guy. Well, about 1 month after he went back stateside, I received a letter from his wife....
ReplyDeleteIn my younger days I used to date a lot of men, single...and married. (Yes, I know I was naughty. I've grown up since then). The weird thing was that the single guys just wanted no-strings sex, while the married ones wanted goddamn relationships with me. You'd think it would be the other way around, no?
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:29, I hear ya. Dated (well, had an intense fucking mind-meld with, and also a lot of sex with) a guy who wasn't married, wasn't even engaged, just in a serious relationship. I knew about it, though, so I can't blame anyone but myself. Whatever. It's not my job to keep other women's boyfriends faithful.
ReplyDeleteMemo to spiteful commenters with empty grievances: don't mix baking soda with that vinegar. You'll foam at the mouth.
ReplyDeleteOh, and about the post? When I got to the line "Simon is my husband", I just clapped my hand over my mouth. God, I'm a sucker too.
ReplyDeleteSimon may be a douche, but are you all kidding me? She was "cynical" yet she was more than willing to accept 500$ of underwear so early in the relationship? And a house? And cottage? And whatever other crap he lied about. Fine, he's a con-man, but she's a pathetic gold-digger. I just can't feel sorry for this woman. What he did is gross, but she was blinded by all the money he was spending on her... too damn bad.
ReplyDeleteI will never understand why women have to be so quick to jump into the sack with a man she just met, or has known briefly. What ever happened to self control, self respect and taking it slow? These are the things that broken hearts, stds and unplanned pregnancies come from.
ReplyDeleteMy most recent relationship I dated a guy for 6 months. About 5 months in, he one day just disappeared and didn't return my calls or answer the phone, and then his phone was never on anymore. At first I was worried but after a month passed I figured it was a cowardly way of dumping me.
ReplyDeleteThen after a month he popped up again and kept calling me. I finally answered the phone and he said that he had been out of the country for quite awhile because his grandmother had unexpectedly died. I knew his grandmother did live halfway across the world, and I understood because I knew he had already lost his father. I didn't want to make him anymore upset by asking why he didn't bother to tell me what had happened before he left, so I just left it alone. He promised me he'd never suddenly disappear like that again.
Then a month later he disappeared again. We had been making plans to do things together, so naturally I got worried when he just dropped off the face of the earth like that. Once again, not answering my calls or anything. I was stressing out badly because I was really worried that something had happened to him. So I resorted to logging into his myspace account which he had given me the password to. I ran out of options because I didn't know any of his friends to the point where I had a means of contacting them to find out what happened, so I thought checking his account would at least show me if he was still around if he had logged in recently or sent emails.
Well, he had. According to his myspace messages, he had been cheating on me with his ex-girlfriend. And he had apparently stopped talking to me because he found a replacement and couldn't be bothered to break up with me even though we had dated for half a year. Instead he decided to drop off the face of the earth and not care how worried I got (and this was after we had reached the "I love you" phase).
Oh, and his grandmother is alive and well.
I will never understand why women have to be so quick to jump into the sack with a man she just met, or has known briefly.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a bad thing, actually (obviously).
According to his myspace messages, he had been cheating on me with his ex-girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteFuck yeah.
And he had apparently stopped talking to me because he found a replacement and couldn't be bothered to break up with me even though we had dated for half a year. Instead he decided to drop off the face of the earth and not care how worried I got (and this was after we had reached the "I love you" phase).
Maybe you should have taken the 'hint'.
Wow, so many obnoxious trolls on this post.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I definitely didn't see where this one was going. I thought it would become a post about obsessive, controlling guys. I understand how Andie could get caught up in everything- it feels good t be swept off your feet! He was fulfilling a fantasy for her. Yeah, the VS thing is weird, but sometimes you do become extremely close in a short amount of time. Of course there are many things she could have checked out in order to avoid this, but that only becomes apparent once you know the outcome. After dating guys who never want to make concrete future plans, get hives when the M word comes up, and are generally wishy-washy about the relationship, you don't really want to question when someone comes along who seems completely different.
This is more like "Psychotic men! (also featuring letters)" than PLFM. But still, this one was good and scary.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 12:24:
ReplyDeleteHey, I like broad, sweeping generalizations too! I like how they allow you to have opinions without having to think too hard. It's so convenient. :D
I still think it's her fault. Read his e-mails to her again; saccharine is the word that comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteHow does any woman fall for gushy nonsense like that? Is that supposed to be even vaguely believeable? It's nauseating.
ROFL, great post, weasel, just what I needed this Labor Day. I read Simon's mash notes and got an acute case of nose bleed, nausea, and puckered ass. The guy was too good to be true!.
ReplyDeleteMy tattooed, beer-swilling ex-boyfriend looks like prince charming next to this scrode who knows how to seduce and please a woman right out of her dignity. Perhaps he's a sociopath, since he does this repeatedly and remorselessly. I hope I have my cockroach-kicking boots on if I ever encounter him.
Romantics out there should utilize web security programs that would've revealed the truth for about 30 bucks american. Poetry and free underwear? Not enough of a payback for me. Maybe the good sex was worth it, but really?
Why, if he's English and the money-giving woman is English, did he ask her for $?
ReplyDeleteMaybe he asked for £15,000 but the woman kindly converted it into US dollars while talking to Andie. US is approximately one-half of Great British pounds. Or maybe Andie wasn't sure how to make the £ sign on her keyboard and just went with it. Either way, dude duped the british bird out of a lot of cash.
ReplyDeleteYeah, according to the woman who gave him the money posting on Andie's blog, it was £15000. I guess either Andie or Weasel converted it for us.
ReplyDeletePoetry and free underwear? Not enough of a payback for me.
ReplyDeletePayback for what? She lost nothing. Absolutely nothing!
So what you're saying Anonymous 1:50, is that you have no concept of emotional involvement or human relationships.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, I forgot, emotions and relationships are for pussies. You're too cool to care about that lame-ass shit. SRRY ESTEEMED INTERNET PPLZ. I'll go crawl back into my hole now.
I have seen this play out from another angle...the wife. When I figured out my ex-hubby was cheating I contacted his girlfriend (young, cute, in her first post-college relationship). She didn't know he was married. I couldn't be angry with her because she was devastated. He broke her heart in a big way. Well, mine too. Anyway, jokes on him; she is a very good friend now, and we have both moved on.
ReplyDeleteYou know he actually LOOKS like a waiter.
ReplyDeleteSide note for Andie: British construction foreman are never well-spoken. They're backwards, vowel-mangling hicks who've risen through the ranks of cement-slingers by being meaner and more aggressive than their erstwhile compatriots.
Just for your future reference.
dogface,
ReplyDeleteNot a broad sweeping generalization as you say, just fact. Plain and simple.
Anonymous 9:50, women "fall for that" because they're trained to: romance novels, the movies, that appalling "Twilight" series - they all revolve around impossibly romantic men sweeping women off their feet to a life of bliss. If you're constantly bombarded with that crap and taught that it just might be out there if you're special enough, it's easy to fall for.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bella, it might not be your responsibility to keep other women's boyfriends faithful, but did you ever consider it might be your responsibility not to be a douche?
@Anonymous 1:50 - "Payback for what? She lost nothing. Absolutely nothing!"
ReplyDeleteYou're kidding, right? Yeah, she got free undies, but there seems to be a whole lot of emotional involvement on her part that got entirely screwed over when she discovered Simon Douchebag's true self. Seems to me she lost what she thought was a great boyfriend.
Ah, silly me. I forgot that those vaginaed people are all clones with no independent thought or any sort of differences and that the presence of a vagina automatically comes with an uncontrollable desire to have it filled with a penis at all times. I guess I must be a man since my vagina-sense seems to be broken. Please accept my humble apologies in deference to your obvious knowledge and wisdom. You obviously know humanity, especially women, better than I do.
ReplyDeleteI was the married one.. but I went on to divorce the husband and marry the boyfriend. Best decision I have ever made. That romantic crap is garbage. Sounds like she needed to get him some Summers Eve and a tampon instead of having sex with him. Everyone I know that has gotten over the top sickening romantic letter/emails/conversations like that has ended up being cheated on or being the girlfriend of a married man unknowingly. WAYYY too good to be true, obviously. Should have seen it coming.
ReplyDeleteI've been conned pretty badly in my life until I've reached the point where "I care for you" makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end, and "I love you" turns me into dust on the road and a distant speck on the horizon. If I ever got emails like the ones above I'd throw myself screaming off a balcony.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with things that are too good to be true is that they are, indeed, too good to be true. Also, ditto with anon 6/9 2:24. Purchases made scream 'married man' to me as well.
That said, a tough, savvy, cynical and confident woman/man may be able to see through 499 people out of 500...but it's the 500th one that is a very charming and experienced monster. When pointing out the mistakes and misjudgements of people who do fall for the Simons of the world, I do wish the finger pointers would get it through their thick fucking heads that blaming the victims means that the Simons *are still out there* and are *getting better at it*.
Cheating on your GF/BF one day-->
Lying to your employer the next-->
Cheating on your wife/husband-->
Stealing from your wife/husband-->
--> One day realising that lying and cheating is a fun and profitable way to earn a living, and becoming a professional con artist.
And next thing you know, people have lost their lifesavings and it's all going downhill from there.
I have a lot of sympathy for Andie, but Simon's a pro; she got off very lightly, especially when you think about what happened to the poor Pom.
I love how, to many commenters, anyone who doesn't 100% take the woman's side in any given post is automatically a troll.
ReplyDeleteIf you're constantly bombarded with that crap and taught that it just might be out there if you're special enough, it's easy to fall for.
ReplyDeleteIt's true. It's on TV!
And Bella, it might not be your responsibility to keep other women's boyfriends faithful, but did you ever consider it might be your responsibility not to be a douche?
No. Between the boyfriend and the broad. Commitment ftl.
I forgot that those vaginaed people are all clones with no independent thought or any sort of differences and that the presence of a vagina automatically comes with an uncontrollable desire to have it filled with a penis at all times.
Truth.
I do wish the finger pointers would get it through their thick fucking heads that blaming the victims means that the Simons *are still out there* and are *getting better at it*.
And blaming the brilliant cons does not? Right, blaming does nothing ever.
Cheating on your GF/BF one day-->
Lying to your employer the next-->
Cheating on your wife/husband-->
Stealing from your wife/husband-->
--> One day realising that lying and cheating is a fun and profitable way to earn a living, and becoming a professional con artist.
Slippery slope: it's beautiful.
I totally sympathise with Andie. After my marriage failed (wah, wah) I hooked up with this girl a couple of months later and fell for her HARD. We had a great month or two together and I was completely smitten with her.
ReplyDeleteThe outcome wasn't the same (I got the "I'm going to stop calling to break up with you treatment" because we really didn't have that much in common), but I get the initial sentiment.
Also, if Andie's reading this: I think she's dreamy. If she's not done with British guys who want to buy her nice underwear...
I had an experience with a married guy. I was interning for a company when I was a college freshman, and there was this really cute, really nice guy in the IT department who would always come over by my cube and chat and hang out. He occasionally gave me rides home from work so I wouldn't have to take the bus, we went out to lunch together, and so on, and chatting became very obvious flirting, which turned into getting blocked websites miraculously unblocked on my work computer and lunchtime quickies. (Not my finest hour, certainly, but I was young, foolish, and it was a lot of fun.) I won't say he ever made any promises, but he certainly didn't behave in the manner of any married guy I (at all of my 17 years) knew. He didn't wear a ring or talk about anyone else, much less a wife or family. Nobody else in his department tipped me off, and we were discreet enough that nobody else in my department knew that we were carrying on. A few of my co-workers knew we were a little flirty, but that was all.
ReplyDeleteNow, a few months after this nonsense started, IT Guy was missing from work for a few days. Concerned, I asked another intern in my dept. if he was out sick or if he'd left the company or something. "No," she said, "he's out on paternity leave. His wife just had a baby last week." I played it off as casually as I could, but I felt sick to my stomach, and absolutely guilty and horrible. I immediately went to my mentor who was thankfully very cool about the whole thing. When IT Guy came back and tried to take things back up with me (after he was in the kitchen telling everyone else in the office about his wonderful wife and new baby), I told him to leave me the hell alone. When he tried to feign ignorance and pretended to be hurt ("Wife? Baby? I don't know what you're talking about, why are you so upset?"), my mentor came by and let him know that if he didn't want his wife (or anyone else) getting wind that he'd been screwing around with a minor while she was 8 months pregnant, he'd keep back.
16 years later, I still feel terrible about that whole incident. I hope his wife caught on and booted his ass.
To the person complaining about women who just can't resist jumping in bed with people:
ReplyDeleteDid it ever occur to you that the dudes that all women are supposedly just dying to fuck (or other ladies, but you specifically mentioned pregnancies, so I'm assuming you didn't have homosexuality in mind) maybe, just maybe, also decided that they might've wanted to have sex too?
Pssh, I'm just shitting you. We all know that men never want to have sex. Ever.
Anonymous 10:20:
ReplyDeleteCool kids are contrary with strangers on the internet because it's just that fucking funny and makes you popular with the ladies. :D
And Bella, it might not be your responsibility to keep other women's boyfriends faithful, but did you ever consider it might be your responsibility not to be a douche?
ReplyDeleteI have to agree. I give a free pass to women like Andie who were duped, but any woman who knowingly sleeps with a married man is a douche.
@ Anonymous "September 6th, 2009 7:36 AM"
ReplyDeleteI agree that when I read about all the money he was spending on Andie (especially after only a few days) I was thinking control freak- the kind of personality that thinks he can buy a woman.
But when I looked at the receipt and saw that it was $500 CASH, my spidey sense started tingling, and it made me wonder how much of his spending on her was cash rather than a credit/debit card.
Ladies, a man who doesn't use a card is hiding something, either his income (ie drug dealer) or his spending (ie married).
Anonymous 10:20
ReplyDelete"I forgot that those vaginaed people are all clones with no independent thought or any sort of differences and that the presence of a vagina automatically comes with an uncontrollable desire to have it filled with a penis at all times."
Swap "vaginaed" for "penis-possessing" and you're more accurate. You're telling me you don't think cultural messages have *anything* to do with peoples' vulnerability to cons like this?
Her VS receipt shows a lot of "hipsters"...what is that?
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean she has to wear some girdle like contraption, as she is too fat? Yeah, real catch she is.
I like his e-mails too...that stuff was icky in the 5th grade, from an adult? No way. How phony can she be to believe those?
How lame are these women? I like her "I'll stop being a bitch when men stop being assholes"...ummm...did you ever think the guys who aren't assholes are kind of turned off by a bitch like you? Why don't you try being nice and THEN be a bitch if it turns out they're not nice back?
I think Cynthia Heimel said it best in Sex Tips for Girls:
ReplyDelete"Very intense very quickly, your married man. It seems to good to be true, too romantic to be real.
And, of course, it is too good to be true. The intensity that a married man feels could never exist in a member of the species who is single. Your married man can get as intense as he wants to, because he is safe. There, lurking quietly in the background, is his wife.
What is a wife? I hear you ask. What does she have that I don't have?
She's got her husband, that's what she has. The real, true fellow, the one who wakes up in the morning and complains that all his shirts are blue and he hates blue shirts. The one who dips his french fries in his coffee. The one who snarls if his soft-boiled egg is too runny.
A wife is a married man's safety net. With you, he can be a dashing, moody, romantic and demanding lover. A paragon of sensitivity, vulnerable to a fault. Because he doesn't need you--he's got his security blanket waiting for him at home, keeping the teapot warmed."
Not only women can be suckers for a smooth line and taken advantage of. Here's a lovely story for you all.
ReplyDeleteTen years ago, I wqs involved with a Greek hairdresser (female).
We seemed to hit it off almost immediately. Or maybe I was just a good tipper. Anyway, we started a relationship that was pretty intense for the three months it lasted. Iwas the romantic sucker giving flowers, candy, expensive meals, etc. Warning signs that I ignored: I could only come over to her condo at certain times, and others I feel too stupid to mention.
One of her co-workers FINALLY told me the truth, after months of me making a fool of myself: that she had a live in boyfriend and I was there on days when he was out of town of business.
When I confronted her about it, there was no hint of remorse, and she acted like I was the one with the problem. She was able to just shrug it off and drop me like a stone.
I, unfortunately, wasn't so lucky. I ended up getting some "rest" in a hospital after my nervous breakdown and suicide attempt. And I lost quite a few "friends" because they couldn't deal.
My only other relationship (two years later) was ruined at least partially by that fallout; ultimately she was too fucking weak to handle it.
That was 2001. It has been eight years since I've had what you'd call a "girlfriend". I've been on dates, but the women involved soon pretty much lose their interest pretty rapidly, since I guess it's the cardinal sin of "being myself".
The ultimate joke? A roommate I had in college was very much a "Simon" type who'd break up with GFs at the drop of a hat, usually by cheating on them with someone else. And yet they still came a-runnin'. I, on the other hand, saw a lot of my attempted "seduction" met with disbelieving stares like I just crawled out from under a rock.
Bottom lines: some men weren't born sexist, we EARN it, especially when women fall for a smooth talker while passing over good men who only require a little TLC.
Am I the only one who thinks that he wasn't so much conning her as conning himself, or at least conning himself equally? He seems to have some kind of pathological romantic addiction. His passion as evidenced by his writings and actions seem sincere (if, from an objective viewpoint, insane). I think he really did believe that he was madly in love with her at the time. The fact that he repeats this pattern over and over point to the addictive nature of his sickness. I am not in any way saying that what he did to Andie was excusable, but I just don't see an evil conniving man so much as a sick, sick man.
ReplyDelete1151 anon
ReplyDelete______
Geniunely sorry to hear that one relationship went so badly that you became ill, and it still affects you, even 10 years later.
But not everyone is like this and hopefully you'll be able to forget what is past.
I'm going to further assume that this Greek girl is an early shared topic of conversation for the women you date, since it sounds like you're not over it. It might be a lot for them to deal with, especially if you still haven't managed to do so yourself. You wouldn't want to be with someone who was still in love with someone else, so why would they?
People judge you on how you make them feel about themselves.
That's how she hooked you, by making you feel great about yourself by association and that why you felt so bad when she left.
And if you are ever going to be able to find a new successful relationship you need to firstly feel good about yourself and then make others feel good about themselves.
Good things will follow. Believe me.
@ Anonymous 10:57 loser who doesn't know anything about womens underpants:
ReplyDeleteHipsters are low-slung underpants that sit low on the hips, hence the name. The opposite of high-waisted girdle whatevers you're talking about. Pretty women wear hipsters. Try meeting one.
Anon 12:39-
ReplyDeleteThank you for not flaming me. I expected a lot of that.
Truth is, she's not an early topic. Especially now. I only told my "last" GF because she kept pushing me to be "more open". And once I did, not 24 hrs. passed before I got the call that begins "this is a hard thing to say" and roughly ended with her whining "you're making this so hard!"
And I PRAY every day that not everyone is like this.
Thanks for your support.
1151 anon
LOL, too funny that she got played like that. What does she care though? She's 36 and still single (probable because she's insane and no man can put up with her) which means she will probably be that way til she dies. She should feel special that a man paid that much attention to her at all. Freak.
ReplyDelete... and he ain't that cute!
ReplyDeleteha ha about the hipsters. I'm just so square, yeah, I'll try to "meet one" some time.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure it's not pretty women but sucker skanky women who flatter themselves and hold out for phony British con-men? At least the accent was real? LOL.
So are you judging women for wearing high waisted granny panties, or for wearing those skanky hipsters? Which underpants do you deem acceptable?
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that unmarried men at 36 are just bachelors, but unmarried women at that age are assumed to be nasty bitches who run men off?
ReplyDeleteWomen learned a long time ago that you don't need to buy the whole pig in order to get a little sausage.
I guess that pisses some of you right the hell off, judging by your adolescent postings.
I'm sorry Andie got conned, but yes, the paying CASH for everything set my 'red alert' klaxons going.
At least she didn't get taken for money, like the poor, duped woman in England.
These con artists are charming and relentless.
I hope his wife has smartened up too, and divorced this lying, cheating asshat.
When I confronted her about it, there was no hint of remorse, and she acted like I was the one with the problem. She was able to just shrug it off and drop me like a stone.
ReplyDeleteI, unfortunately, wasn't so lucky. I ended up getting some "rest" in a hospital after my nervous breakdown and suicide attempt. And I lost quite a few "friends" because they couldn't deal.
My only other relationship (two years later) was ruined at least partially by that fallout; ultimately she was too fucking weak to handle it.
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Why is it that unmarried men at 36 are just bachelors, but unmarried women at that age are assumed to be nasty bitches who run men off?
ReplyDeleteBecause it's true! Infertility nears. Women are only good for birthing.
1151 anon,
ReplyDeleteI second Anon 12:39. There is someone out there for you. You have indicated in your post that you are sensitive. This means that you have to be doubly thorough in selecting a partner. What I mean by this is that be mindful of signs of a con. If you make sure your appearance is attractive and start to feel good about yourself then a partner will come.
I'm deeply sorry to hear of your suicide attempt. I hope that you are in therapy as it has very good results. Have you talked with your doctor about antidepressants? They maybe helpful in dealing with your depression and anxiety. Most of all don't blame yourself. Anyone, given your circumstances, would feel the same way you do.
Best wishes.
"Why is it that unmarried men at 36 are just bachelors, but unmarried women at that age are assumed to be nasty bitches who run men off?"
ReplyDeleteMack,
I couldn't agree with you more. She could have had a few long term relationship which would put her in her thirties by the time they ended.
The kids are back, or at least they appear to be kids. Poorly read, silly ideas, poor writing skills. Either the trolls are kids or really stupid adults.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:10, is that the best you can come up with?
ReplyDeleteNot only did it not annoy me, I found it pathetically unfunny. You're losing your touch, dear.
Try again.
Anonymous 2:04 said...
ReplyDeleteBAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
---------------
What a stupid comment.
Bella and all other women who think it's not their responsibility to keep men from cheating: No it's not your responsibility to keep them faithful, but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to respect your fellow woman. It takes two people to have an affair. Unfortunately, not many people will see this post or take it to heart, so what the hell is the point...
ReplyDeleteAnon,
ReplyDeleteHe's not a poor, sick individual who can't help himself, he's a psychopath who has no feelings for others. The only thing that matters in his life is himself and what he wants. He knows exactly what he's doing and can choose not to do it. It's not a compulsion just callousness. I have no doubt that he was intending to con Andie out of money.
No it's not your responsibility to keep them faithful
ReplyDeleteTrue.
but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to respect your fellow woman.
False. If someone wants to cheat, then the relationship is bogus in any meaningful way. Cheating is entirely the cheater's issue.
Anon 2:10, is that the best you can come up with?
Not only did it not annoy me, I found it pathetically unfunny. You're losing your touch, dear.
Try again.
Sarcasm comprehension fail.
I have no doubt that he was intending to con Andie out of money.
ReplyDeleteO rly? After spending so much money, too. Reckless speculation.
I'm not positive that the "paying cash" thing would have tipped me off. I know several people who always pay cash for everything. One's a libertarian computer geek who doesn't want anyone being able to collect electronic information about him. One's a Volvo mechanic. (No, I have no idea why he always uses cash. But I've seen him pay a $7 tab with a $100 bill, more than once.) One's a cocktail waitress who gets paid under the table and gets all her tips in cash. And one's a carpenter who works as an independent contractor and is usually paid in cash.
ReplyDeletefudge,
ReplyDeleteyou crack me up. The granny panties mean she's probably old and kind of big, she hid her face so I don't know....
I think I'd approve of normal underwear not some skanky "loook at me you big stud", who knows how many dozens of british guys with phony accents a skank like that has been with!
It's not that I approve or disapprove, just seeing that VS list though is ridiculous. What women even wants $500 of underwear? Does she foul them up that easily? Who knows what crawls out of there with the guys she's with, lol.
I think she deserved what she got.
I feel I must speak up for my friend.
ReplyDeleteI have known Andie for three years now, and I definitely wouldn't call her a cynic. She is more the whimsical, free-spirited Holly Golightly type than anything else. Does she sometimes pay the price for her impulsive behavior? Yes. Do I love her? Absolutely. She's one of the most interesting people I've ever known--consequently, she's seldom alone unless she wants to be. To the weirdo who was confused about hipster lingerie? Consider yourself lucky that you even know anything about the contents of her underwear drawer.
@Anonymous 2:10
"Infertility nears. Women are only good for birthing." --- I have no doubt you view the world this way. I am also confident that you are unaware that a lot of us thirtysomething urbanites would rather eat glass than squander our independence to change diapers and attend PTA meetings--where we might, G_d forbid--have to hang out with your miserable, undersexed wife (assuming there's a woman out there desperate enough to let you impregnate her).
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to be going. I don't have a husband, but I do have a life.
@Anonymous 2:10
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to be going. I don't have a husband, but I do have a life.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy not spawning. We need less of your genes in the pool. Thanks!
Yeah, I'm a weirdo, cause I think she's a big fat phony with "hipster" underwear.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to know the contents of that skank's dresser or the things that crawl out of her to need $500 worth of underwear.
Holly GoLightly, Holly give it up lightly for some "British" loser.
This stupid broad imagines herself a "writer" and can't figure out a phony like this? Too much!
Nice Jewish friend you have sticking up for you. Real class act.
@Anon 6:08: I'm sure you're a prize pig, but I doubt there's much chance of you spawning. It may have to do with your sparkling personality and endearing attitude, I'm not sure.
ReplyDeleteCan we please get a better class of anonymice?
Hey Anon, how the fuck did you end up at "Jewish" from Andie's friend's comment? Take your bullshit elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say that it depends on which Holly Golightly we're talking about, book or movie. One's not such a compliment.
I'm sure you're a prize pig, but I doubt there's much chance of you spawning. It may have to do with your sparkling personality and endearing attitude, I'm not sure.
ReplyDeleteYour genes don't belong in the pool either. Please abstain.
Anonymous at 3:43 said:
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that he was intending to con Andie out of money.
O rly? After spending so much money, too. Reckless speculation.
Actually, it works that way sometimes. I was conned by a guy who came on strong, just like Simon. When I met him he was working at in IT startup (back in SF in those heady pre-crash days) and making crazy money. He took me for drives up the coast in his BMW, bought me fancy dinners, expensive wines, clothes, etc. etc. Then he lost his job, and couldn't seem to find a new one (maybe had something to do with the fact that he wasn't looking, nah!), the BMW broke down, yet he insisted on living the same lifestyle - and guess who was paying for it now? Because he'd pay it all back as soon as he found another high-salary IT job. This was 2000....right... Needless to say, never happened, and after being out more money and time than I care to admit, I finally kicked his lying, narcissistic, manipulative, lazy ass to the curb.
Oh, and as for this: "Infertility nears. Women are only good for birthing." Wow, somebody's seriously lacking a clue. Newsflash: men have biological clocks, too. Try the Google sometime, you'll learn something: http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n11/full/nm1108-1170a.html
bhm-
ReplyDeleteThank you for your support and advice. It is much respected and appreciated.
Oh, and BAWWWWWWW-"BOY", I looked death in the face. Why the fuck should I care about your trolling comments?
1151 anon
Then he lost his job, and couldn't seem to find a new one (maybe had something to do with the fact that he wasn't looking, nah!), the BMW broke down, yet he insisted on living the same lifestyle - and guess who was paying for it now?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't sound like part of a con scheme.
Newsflash: men have biological clocks, too.
It lasts much longer than females'.
Oh, and BAWWWWWWW-"BOY", I looked death in the face. Why the fuck should I care about your trolling comments?
ReplyDeleteA self-directed death. Did you notice that? Self-pity. Please kill yourself. End the BAWWWWWWWWWing.
Seems apt to remind everyone: please don't feed the trolls.
ReplyDeleteand weasel...have you thought about moderating your comments? Seems you've attracted enough readers - and trolls - to consider the possibility.
Hellskell-
ReplyDeleteBlanking out the "O" in "God" (See where she typed G_D?_ s a Jewish thing- it stems from a reluctance to use the name in vain, even in text. ^^
Heh, the comments about hipsters being skanky underwear had me laughing out loud. This dude clearly never had the opportunity to undress a woman.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to breeding: Women have the upper hand by possesion of a uterus. Sperm is cheep and can be easily purchased. Oh, and we live longer, so there, HA!
Anon 934-
ReplyDeleteYou're right. Why discuss things with people who make you glad abortion is still legal in this country?
But I digress.
1151 anon
Well I never had the opportunity to undress a find specimen such as yourself or the OP, and that's probably a good thing, I would have come up gasping for air, LOL.
ReplyDeleteI'll leave that pleasure to phony conmen with British accents. I've got to stay in my place, LOL.
In regards to breeding: Women have the upper hand by possesion of a uterus.
ReplyDelete9 months of vulnerability: not the upper hand.
Why discuss things with people who make you glad abortion is still legal in this country?
ReplyDeletePrecisely, why discuss things at all? End it now. No one will miss you. No more stupid bitches. No more disappointment. You know it's the best solution.
What kind of miserable wretch would wish some poor soul to commit suicide?
ReplyDeleteNo one would miss him? Do you think anyone would 'miss' a beautiful soul like YOU?
I also vote for comment moderation. This is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteMeh, I'm not a fan of moderation.
ReplyDeleteI do think the ability to post anonymously should go bye-bye, though.
Too many trolls, without knowing just WHICH one is posting.
If they were required to log in with a user name, we could at least know which posters to ignore.
Anon3:29, you weren't being sarcastic, you were being petulant and pathetic. There's a major difference.
Sarcasm, although mean, can be funny. Your postings are just mean and lame. No funny involved.
Of course, what can one expect from basement dwelling virgins who still live with Mumsy and Daddums at 30 y/o?
Enough already! Would someone please explain the whole troll thing to me? I don't get it. People come on here and write moronic nasty things because it entertains them? Seriously? They have nothing better to do? I am dumbfounded. They really need to find another hobby.
ReplyDeleteAlso, with regards to the suicide thread... I once knew a (very) young man who would threaten to kill himself in order to get his way. It worked for awhile, and oh how he abused it! Finally I told his parents how concerned I was about his suicide threats, they were taken aback because it was the first they had heard of it, and never saw the guy again. HOWEVER- after a delightful young adulthood, I married in my mid 30s and had two lovely babies (naturally and perfectly healthy in my late 30s, so whoever was talking about the biological clock can stick that ticker up their nose). After the second one, I developed postpartum depression. Combined with a job where I worked with the Devil himself. Not some lite Baby Blues, a little teary and sleep deprived- full-on major depression. I cannot adequately articulate what it felt like, the exhaustion, despair, hopelessness, inability to concentrate, headaches, hyper-vigilance, and the trick is that all of that felt normal, if that makes any sense. When I started to have a little breakdown myself I realized I needed help and got it. I am a much better mother, wife and ME now, having come out of the darkness. And I have a way better job. So- whoever made that smartypants comment about suicide earlier- You. Have. No. Idea. What. You. Are. Talking. About. I will now get my Victoria's Secret cotton hipsters out of a wad and get back to my day.
Rothhase:
ReplyDeleteTrollers/Flamers do what they do becasue it's a form of entertainment. They get their jollies from baiting people into arguing with them and distracting from the topic (hence the fishing term "trolling"). People do it because they are anon on the web--most who troll wouldn't dare say the same things to someone face-to-face.
When people acknowledge and respond to a troll, it feeds their desire to stir up more trouble. Responding to a troll/flamer is rewarding them. Said troll might not even believe what he or she is saying, it's just fun to say things to get people mad. The same troll that might say "X is true on the Y forum" will say "Y is true on the X forum."
The best thing to do is not respond to a troll/flamer. Think of it as being similar to when you have chicken pox--no matter how good you think it might feel to scratch (respond to what a troll is saying), in the long run you just make things worse. Leave it alone and it might itch for a while and really bug you, but will eventually go away.
I can understand why Weasel allows anonymous comments here since sometimes people are writing intensely personal things about relationships and sexual experiences. The trolls are truly annoying but as it's been said many times before, the best way to deal with trolls is not through moderation but through simply ignoring them. They'll go away if no one is taking their bait.
ReplyDeleteI work with a couple real-life trolls. They're okay guys for the most part but they like to say things just to get a rise out of people. I've learned to continue on, not skipping a beat or even acting as though I heard what they just said, and it truly nips their little game in the bud. They even tell me sometimes that I'm too good at it and just no fun.
Try it.
No one would miss him? Do you think anyone would 'miss' a beautiful soul like YOU?
ReplyDeleteYou retards would. You eat this up!
If they were required to log in with a user name, we could at least know which posters to ignore.
Like they wouldn't register new accounts.
Anon3:29, you weren't being sarcastic, you were being petulant and pathetic. There's a major difference.
Subjectivist fail. Like you have any basis to know.
So- whoever made that smartypants comment about suicide earlier- You. Have. No. Idea. What. You. Are. Talking. About.
O rly?
Would someone please explain the whole troll thing to me?
Trolling is a art.
Trolls are assholes. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteI just have to say, this line of comments contains most skillfull trolling I've seen in a long time.
ReplyDeleteY'all, just ignore it. If they're doing it for fun, it only makes it more fun for them when they know it upsets you. If they really do believe what they're saying, they're so virulent about it that you're obviously not going to change their minds.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.
ReplyDelete@Shimmer, Updike had a line along the lines of "when the wife gets pregnant is when a man gets his first mistress."
ReplyDeleteModerate trolls, boo hoo. He knows he'd lose a shitload of traffic from anons.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sick of the trolls on here... their writing styles remind me of the way my psychotic ex-bf used to talk and write. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI feel for Andie, it would have really sucked to have thought that she found the perfect man, only to find out she had been conned.
I'll keep the paying cash thing in mind... I never really considered that it might be a tip-off for discovering a man is secretly married.
Cheers
Helen
Back on topic, here's a blog from a woman who's been there:
ReplyDeletehttp://donttouchthepinkstuff.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-spot-married-man.html
>Bottom lines: some men weren't born sexist, we EARN it, especially when women fall for a smooth talker while passing over good men who only require a little TLC.
ReplyDeleteUgh! Rabid self-entitlement if I ever heard it. It's not a woman's job to offer you TLC unless you are *already involved*. Why should a woman go for a fixer-upper when there are so many other fish in the sea, and no, not just the smooth talkers. You're not entitled to a girlfriend. Get your act together FIRST, THEN look for a girlfriend - don't depend on a new girlfriend to fix you. There are too many great guys out there who don't need fixing. I know because I married one, and we've been married 11 years.
Well I don't blame this guy for being a little bitter. AS for "fix yourself first", that may be a little hard to do when being shunned by the entire female population.
ReplyDeleteIf you have no sympathy for this guy, then you shouldn't have any for the "writer" who fell for the phony british guy. Maybe she should work on herself and be a little less phony and into herself, then she wouldn't fall for an obvious conman like this guy.
Hello all! Yes, it's me!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I love this blog! So happy that Weas took an interest in my story. His take on it was brilliant, as usual.
I wanted to say that it's gratifying to read all the supportive comments from everyone. As for the trolls--they don't bother me, don't let them get to you. Sad little people.
I am happy to report that I have moved on and am no longer troubled by the events of last summer. As for my love life, I don't want to jinx anything by revealing too much too soon, but...yeah, someone is special. :-)
Thanks again Weas!
Cheers,
Andie
I'm not one of the trolls, but I post anonymously because of the trolls. I don't want them following me back to my own (moderated) blog and pestering me with their asshat comments.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:48, I do have some sympathy for him because of how his ex treated him - that part was not his fault. But I have less sympathy for his complaint that he hasn't found someone new because THAT part of it is his own fault.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote: "AS for "fix yourself first", that may be a little hard to do when being shunned by the entire female population."
It may be hard but it is necessary if he wants a new girlfriend. The reason he is being shunned is that he wants a woman to save him from his misery while the women he is trying to date want someone who is not so miserable. It's a fact of life that you cannot change other people - you can only change yourself. So if a person, man or woman, is having trouble getting a date or a significant other they need to stop blaming the other half of the population and look to self-improvement as an answer.
This guy's emails set off my creep-meter big time. When a guy professes love too early and too often, something's off. When a guy starts talking marriage that quickly, he's a control freak or a con artist.
ReplyDeleteWhat painful lessons. Ouch. Andie, my heart goes out.
What's the definition of a troll? Someone who posts something other than "that mean man!, what a jerk!"?
ReplyDeleteDoes her new 'interest' have a British accent too? Is he a big phony like the British guy? Maybe we should send him to this blog so he realizes what a ditz he is dating?
I got duped, too, and you feel like an absolute idiot for not having figured it out. Then you just get mad -- getting even is pointless. But it sure puts you off men for a long, long time...
ReplyDeleteWhy should a woman go for a fixer-upper when there are so many other fish in the sea, and no, not just the smooth talkers. You're not entitled to a girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteI think the sentiment stems from a common observation that men are 'rewarded' (and I use the term loosely) not for being good people (in any conventional sense) or for being collected (they can be worse than a fixer-upper), but for presentation. As long as they have this narrowly defined skillset, they can come across as fun, wonderful people and go through women without a second thought. It can lead some to wonder why they should bother being good, generous, or well-collected when they can focus on this skillset instead.
So if a person, man or woman, is having trouble getting a date or a significant other they need to stop blaming the other half of the population and look to self-improvement as an answer.
Such 'self-improvement' may not mean what you expect. You're right, he should improve himself, but for independent reasons. Being good, generous, and well-composed are good in their own right. He should pursue these qualities for his own sake. But they have less to do with effective dating than you might think. Effective dating doesn't take any actual, good improvement. Improving in that sense makes someone successful, but not necessarily good.
I agree with Anon 3:41.
ReplyDeleteAlso, sad story...but those emails are way sappy! Definitely not my cup of tea. Though Andie made a mistake, but at least it was not as serious as it could have been, and she probably learned a lot from it. I'm glad she got out of it!! What a nasty person, this Simon...
Can I vote for moderation too?
ReplyDeleteThe anonymity feature makes this a gathering place for female subjugation. It's not a matter of whether or not you agree with her (though I really don't know what the point of saying "SHE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN" might be), but the sexism that breeds amongst posters is absolutely demeaning. Hipsters are skanky? ...Why is underwear skanky at all? OMG A WOMAN ENJOYS SEX, OH NO. SHE ENJOYS EXPRESSING HER SEXUALITY. Via hipsters.
Absolutely stupid.
The anonymity feature makes this a gathering place for female subjugation.
ReplyDeleteo noes! someone writes disagreeable ideas. text on screen subjugates females. let's make everyone write down a made up id before they post. problem solved!
heh, the whole hipsters are skanky still has me cracking up. Sometimes the trolls involuntarily make for great entertainment.
ReplyDeleteThe remaining 98 % of troll venon? Ignore it.
Holy shit, anon. Some of you couldn't sound more 15 years old if you tried. I seriously loled myself to death. And the underwear thing? HOLY FUCK! Nearly pissed myself, you glorious little virgins, you! You underage b& are fucking priceless.
ReplyDeleteAnon @3:41- Presentation is part of it because if you don't know someone well then presentation is all you have to go on. When a woman has an overwhelming number of options (as most do, even ugly ones) she doesn't have time to get to know every single guy she meets. Men do the same thing, even though their options are more limited. You have to know someone's alive before you consider them as an option.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that doesn't mean being a good person isn't important to women. Yes, some guys date a lot of women by being good presenters. But when you look at stable marriages, THOSE guys are usually good guys. (Not entitled "nice guys" but happy, good guys.)
So the idea - for both sexes - is to learn to be a good presenter in order to GET someone's attention, but also be a good person in order to KEEP someone's attention.
--Lynne (couldn't log in for some reason)
Most women I talk to don't have an overwhelming number of options...well not for anything more than a roll in the hay.
ReplyDeleteI'm the anon who didn't know that what kind of underwear 'hipsters' were...happily married with 3 kids, thanks for the 15 year old troll comments though. Can't say I'm an expert in names of women's undergarments...hipsters vs. thongs, etc.
Anyway the underwear might not be skanky but I think the OP is. Has a certain sense of entitlement and is full of herself.
I'll tell you something that I noticed about women using my gym.
There are two sections to my gym; freeweights and 'machines'...the men use freeweights and the machine side is mostly women. Occassionally women will come to the free weight side and use them...they will occassionally ask some man working out about how to use it, etc. Most of the time the questions are stupid and the women are really just wasting their timne. Without fail, the men (myself included) are very polite, friendly and helpful...even if the woman is not attractive at all (which is usually the case). If a guy looked at a chick like she had 3 heads when she asked a question, he would be considered an ass.
Now let's flip it around..I take a yoga class there sometimes, usually it's 15-20 women and 2-3 guys, the opposite of the free weight area.
For about a year I didn't wear my wedding ring (no, not what you're thinking, I lost it while swimming in the ocean, after I got a new one it didn't fit right, long story)...anyway, I'd occassionally talk to these women, just chit chat before class, etc. They'd almost always be very cold and stand offish. Not that I'm a great catch but I wouldn't say I'm ugly either, and technically it shouldn't matter as it's not like I was asking them out on dates.
Anyway, I finally got my ring fixed right and started wearing it. And almost immediately these same women were much friendier...to the point of flirting. A few times women from work wanted to try the class and went with me...I guess the other females in teh class must have though they were my 'dates' or whatever because after that they were very friendly.
Now what's up with that? How do you feel sorry for any female who complains she "can't find a good guy" when they are cold and unfriendly to every guy who they think isn't 'taken'? Of course all the good guys are taken, if they weren't taken they wouldn't be considered 'good guys'. LOL.
Lynne-
ReplyDeleteYou've been married for 11 years. Good for you.
Once more: GOOD. FOR YOU. But you were fortunate. Sometimes it's just a crapshoot. Why discount a life experience not your own? Keep an open mind and realize you're NOT the entire world's point of view.
I'm sorry, did I come across for negating my responsibility for this incident? Most certainly, I did not. I was stupid for turning too much of a blind eye.
ENTITLED to a GF? PLEASE!!!! THAT is NOT what I'm saying! How you got that out of my post is incomprehensible to me. And I do NOT blame the entire gender for my misfortune. How could I? I haven't met EVERY woman in the world. I'm just suggesting that certain women dig a little deeper rather than fall for an idiotic line and a "pleasant" personality. And don't blame ALL men when they subsequently get burned. Because I certainly don't blame ALL women, just the shallow twits that I've met.
I thank those who give words of support. Lesson learned? A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. People are more apt to respond positively (and listen) to those who TALK TO rather than PREACH AT.
1151 Anon
Anon 845-
ReplyDeleteGood post. I have the same experience in my gym. It's almost like there's a "burden of proof" for men to prove their not an automatic asshat.
God forbid you should say to woman if she's been absent for awhile from there (in a friendly manner "Hi! Where've you been lately?" more times than not you'll get a facial expression that reads "You've NOTICED my coming and going? WHAT ARE YOU!? A stalker?!!!"
But I digress.
1151 anon
P.S. Just remembered a quote from a man much more eloquent than I:
ReplyDelete"Whenever you feel like criticizing someone, always remember that they might not have had all the advantages you've had."
-F. Scott Fitzgerald (paraphrased)
I was a gym rat for a good 8 years. It's true that most women don't know how to use the free weights properly.
ReplyDeleteHeck, the real truth is that most people want an 'instant fix', and when they're not buff within 3 weeks, give it all up. It used to amuse me to watch the noobs come in every January, hog up the machines, and then be completely gone by March.
Not all women ask stupid questions about free weights, and I've never given a man the stink eye for being polite and conversational.
If you're in any group for any length of time, you learn who the regulars are. You also learn who's there just to meet the opposite sex, instead of whatever they paid money to do.
There are good and bad people in every public setting, and if you hang around long enough you get to know which is which.
As far the man who needed therapy to get over his cheating lover? I'm sorry you went through that, but if you come across in real life the way you do on here, it's little wonder you're scaring women away.
When we're trying to get to know someone, them sobbing about a lost lover, admitting to therapy over them, and wanting to commit suicide, is not conducive to romance.
Save that type of talk for your relatives or friends, not your potential mates/lovers.
Presentation is part of it because if you don't know someone well then presentation is all you have to go on. [...] But when you look at stable marriages, THOSE guys are usually good guys. (Not entitled "nice guys" but happy, good guys.)
ReplyDeleteYou're right, a guy should put himself out there instead of blame others for the way success is achieved. It's a broad social issue.
However, life-long, monogamous dedication is not the end-all of dating. The young don't honestly want it. Some never want it. It's a personal choice. A man can ensure himself a stable supply of casual relationships if he can pique interest and effectively establish emotional connection (which can be faked).
Everyone should have selection criteria (ie, standards), but it's important to consider their value and outcomes--specifically the type of competition they inspire. Are the criteria that get used in practice well suited for you? If you want fun, then maybe. For anything else, maybe not.
Anon @ 8:45, when a woman is approached by a strange man and goes into bitch mode, it's usually a fear response. You triggered fight or flight, and she chose fight--a show of hostility to convince you to back off. And women have every right to be wary of strange men. The human male is by far the most dangerous animal on the planet, and sexual misconduct by men is so common that I doubt many women make it to age 25 without experiencing some form of it. (My own tally: 2 attempted rapes and 2 instances of "groping" in the workplace, and my looks are average at best. Prettier women probably get even more unwanted attention.)
ReplyDeleteIf you're wearing a wedding ring, women are less likely to go into bitch mode. The odds are higher that you're just being friendly rather than trying to get into her pants, and the ring is a form of social proof. Some woman liked you enough to marry you, therefore you you can't be all THAT bad.
While pick-up artists are for the most part asshats, there's one thing they get right: they have learned how to approach women without intimidating or frightening them. I wish more men knew those techniques.
You triggered fight or flight, and she chose fight--a show of hostility to convince you to back off. And women have every right to be wary of strange men. The human male is by far the most dangerous animal on the planet, and sexual misconduct by men is so common that I doubt many women make it to age 25 without experiencing some form of it.
ReplyDeleteLosing a cool demeanor is not caution. It can disadvantage you more than it benefits.
Moreover, it's not intelligent to lump people together that way. You said 'men' but you might as well say humans or hominids or mammals, since it's so broad.
A cool demeanor--chilly, unfriendly--is exactly what "bitch mode" is.
ReplyDeleteA cool demeanor--chilly, unfriendly--is exactly what "bitch mode" is.
ReplyDeleteNot so. Cool here means keeping emotional composure. A cool demeanor often carries associations of deliberately acting on calm, fair judgment. It only takes being collected. Unfriendly, off-putting behavior is not necessary (and of dubious advantage if premature).
Whatever you're talking about has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteI'm no gym rat. But the few times I do go to the gym, I don't go to chat. Or to meet people. Or to look my best so as to pick up dudes. I'm going to work out.
ReplyDeleteSo if a guy ignores the fact that I have my headphones on, and that I'm minding my own business, and still tries to make conversation, I go into bitch mode as well. The gym is just not the time or place for all that.
Side note- I HATE when men try to correct how I work out. Perhaps you think I'm doing it wrong, that's fine. I was taught one way, and I haven't hurt myself yet. So please, lecture/annoy someone else. /rant
Whatever you're talking about has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteThen maybe you need to clear your head and reread that, because it does.
Anon 2.20
ReplyDeleteLook, I know it sucks to labelled the violent sex, but really, to state that men in general is more prone to violence then vomen is simply a matter of stating the obvious, not of lumping random individuals together.
Anon 8:45 & 9:21
Can women be agressive? Sure. Stand offish? absolutely. Why? Because otherwise, in case of harm, you'll be accused of not making yourself clear as in it's your own fault that he groped/raped and/or beat you because you were misleading/stupid and/or weak. Somehow, being called a bitch pales in comparison with that scenario.
Anyway, just because women are friendly and/or, gasp, flirt with you doesn't mean that they want to sleep with you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that ring on your finger means that you're safe: That a girl can have a friendly chat with you and be validated without expectations of sexual favours on your part and vice versa.
Huh. I wouldn't call myself a douche. Just a girl who's looking out for number one: herself.
ReplyDeleteI never said a female speaking to me wanted to sleep with me, not even close. Just surprised how they can treat someone coldly and then a ring on the finger means I'm a human being somehow. Aren't some guys without rings human beings?
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't think cold is being a bitch, just kind of comical, that's all.
But I understand what you mean. A ring means I'm probably harmless and any speaking to a strange man can lead to a stalking/rape situation. A sad state of affairs.
A sad state of affairs indeed and the fact that most women actually know their attacker makes it even more depressing...
ReplyDeleteSorry for the somewhat harsh phrasing of my original comment. The accumulated troll wenom got to me, so I read too much machismo in to your earlier comment.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
ReplyDeletethis one gave me CHILLS
Maybe I am a freak, but what I don't understand is how Simon only paid taxes on $2.99 worth of all of that stuff. Is clothing tax exempt in Minnesota?
ReplyDeleteLook, I know it sucks to labelled the violent sex, but really, to state that men in general is more prone to violence then vomen is simply a matter of stating the obvious, not of lumping random individuals together.
ReplyDeleteIs your 'w' key broken?
I don't contest the premise out of dislike. The issue is that the idea is misleading (prejudge men, they're more violent-prone) and follows from a premise that is more 'common knowledge' than tested observation. Whenever a premise is claimed 'obvious', it's often not and should bear careful examination.
(1) Female passiveness is a myth. While some studies confirm common knowledge, other studies indicate males and females have comparable tendencies for aggression, only their styles differ: males more often express it overtly and directly; females favor relational, social aggression; and females sometimes have males perform violence on their behalf. There is room for skepticism. The perceived risk may be inflated and unfair.
(2) Same-sex aggression is more frequent than inter-sex aggression.
(3) Sex is not the only (or best) factor to consider: there are situational factors like intoxication, pain and discomfort, frustration, and the proximity of violent objects.
It's more dispassionate to coolly assess whether a person is actually aggressive (perhaps by actually watching them behave) than to prejudge them and serve them 'punishment' (used loosely), because they're male. The undue frustration that causes may defeat you more than it helps.
Can women be agressive? Sure. Stand offish? absolutely. Why? Because otherwise, in case of harm, you'll be accused of not making yourself clear as in it's your own fault that he groped/raped and/or beat you because you were misleading/stupid and/or weak. Somehow, being called a bitch pales in comparison with that scenario.
Considering how others view you later is superficial and simply not relevant to intelligent, prudent behavior.
I'm not the person who wrote this ... but it's not superficial when you are worried about being blamed for being the victim. Considering how others view you later IS intelligent, prudent behavior. This is important not only in your personal relationships- but legally as well. How you act will change how people treat you. Will they help you, support you etc, when you've been abused, or lose respect for you? You'd be feeling shit enough already- without the added hassle of having to put up with people saying "You didn't make it clear enough"
ReplyDeleteI'd say it was more self preservation than superficiality. I also think that a good reputation is a valuble asset.
I'm generally cool and stand-offish when approached by a guy I don't know who seems to want to chat. This goes at the gym, at the bus stop, and any place that isn't specifically a social gathering. Why? A few reasons: I'm at the gym to work out, not to make friends. I'm at the bus stop to catch the bus, not to have meaningless conversations with strangers. I would rather be alone with my thoughts, my book, or whatever is playing on my headphones. So why did I specify that I'm cool to guys who do this? Because, for the most part, women don't. I don't know why.
ReplyDeleteThere's also the fact that, more often than not (but by no means every time), the guy in question will, at some point in the conversation, attempt to hit on me. I'm not exactly starlet material, and it still happens a lot. So, to head it off, I discourage conversation.
That said, if some guy I don't know well comes up to me *at a social event* and tries to make conversation, I'll probably talk to him. Because that's what I'm there for: to socialize.
Yes, same-sex agression is more commom than inter-sex agression and women channel their agression into different sorts of behavior.
ReplyDeleteThat still doesn't change the fact that a woman is more likely to be physically assualted by by a man than a woman or that the majority of violent crimes are committed by men.
I'm not saying that women are angelic creatures. Rather, when your opponent is bigger and stronger than you, you simply tend to adopt nonviolent strategies.
Same-sex aggression is more common than inter-sex aggression *solely* because male/male crimes are more common than any other category. Don't (want to) believe me? Here are the numbers (from the 90s - the most recent I could find):
ReplyDeleteHomicides in 1999:
Male offender /Male victim 65.1%
Male offender /Female victim 22.4%
Female offender /Male victim 10.1%
Female offender /Female victim 2.4%
Average Number of Violent Crimes Committed Annually, 1993-1997
Offenses Female Offenders Male Offenders Women as % of Violent Offenders
Homicide Total 1,468 14,196 9
Sexual Assault 10,000 442,000 2
Armed Robbery 157,000 2,051,000 7
Aggravated Assault 435,000 3,419,000 11
Simple Assault 1,533,000 7,187,000 18
Total 2,136,468 13,113,196 14
Stats taken from here: http://social.jrank.org/pages/1253/Violent-Crime-Gender-Differences-in-Violent-Crime-Offenders.html#ixzz0QwPcGfCW
I know too many people who've had successful whirlwind relationships to bash them. My parents met June 13th, spent a total of 2 weeks actually together, were married August 13th, and have been together for going on 23 years. A co-worker married her husband a couple of months after meeting him and they've been together for 7 years and going strong. My husband and I were the same way, though we waited 4 years to get married. It was proposed after 2 months, but we wanted to be cautious. Etc., etc.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I do know several couples who've gotten married right away and then been divorced within the year, usually with a kid involved.
The odd thing is that with my parents co-worker and self, the women hated the men. I hated my husband the instant I saw him. My mom thought my dad was a creep and my co-worker thought her husband was rude and pretentious.
In the statistics above, I'd love to know what percent of the women who killed men killed an abusive spouse or partner.
ReplyDeleteNo sales tax on clothing in Minnesota. Thus, the little harlot must've craved a spontaneous buy of chocolate, lip gloss, or enegy drink with adorable pink bunnies on the VS label, in that $2.99 purchase.
ReplyDeleteAny assistant manager could've rang these items up in close-to-closing time boredom, and promptly voided the purchase. "Hey, Brittany - let's see how close we can get to $500 without going over - you go first!"
No self-respecting Briton would've written that Harlequin Fabio-on-the-cover, shallow lovelorn dross. Will call BOGUS on this one. There are many eighth graders that could've come up with far better epistles than that!
I don't want to know the state of "Andie's" lingerie wardrobe before this supposed purchase. 27 items?!
ReplyDeleteWhat sort of morally permissive skank would permit a near stranger (or someone you've just started dating) to buy you such a load of underwear?
The fourth series of numbers are also conveniently blocked out on the receipt. This was merely a sham (I need not add social experiment) to gather just what number of trolls would be in an uproar over this farce of a duping.
That, and if she is thirty-six, please let the public on bated breath know from what gigantic boulder did "Andie" come springing forth, that she fell for such old and worn tactics as this Simon allegedly applied?
A fairy tale without the happy ending.
1151 anon,
ReplyDeleteIt's a tough thing. You've been through a lot. some women find it hard to listen about the great true love who drove their new partner to make a suicide attempt. They build up this picture of the person in their mind and feel they can't ever compete or even come close. sometimes too, the dumped partner can come across that way without intending to, or even realizing that they are. I had a few past partners who would moan on and on about someone they had really wanted and could never have, and it made me feel second best, or good enough for now.
Rothase,
It's called GIFT--Greater Internet Fucktard Theory
Normal Person + Internet + Anonimty= Fucktard
Mack Truck said "Women learned a long time ago that you don't need to buy the whole pig in order to get a little sausage."
ReplyDeleteROFLMAO!!!
Same-sex aggression is more common than inter-sex aggression *solely* because male/male crimes are more common than any other category. Don't (want to) believe me? Here are the numbers (from the 90s - the most recent I could find):[...]
ReplyDeleteAnd you think that conclusion is valid to draw from those statistics? Statistical validity is unaccounted here. A statistical generalization is straightforward:
(1) Proportion x of a random, representative sample of population P satisfies predicate Q.
Therefore, (2) proportion x of population P satisfies predicate Q.
Non-random, unrepresentative: These statistics derive from police criminal reports of direct, criminal aggression. Indirect aggression? Noncriminal aggression? Under-reporting? Police bias? It is well known police actions over-represent minorities. Moreover, there are definition issues. Women sometimes send men to do their work. Do these violent crimes include indirect roles like accessory or conspiracy?
Wrong population: The data samples criminal offenses, not aggressors. Offenders can repeat. Offenders can also share 1 offense. The statistics indicate proportions of offenses, not numbers of aggressors.
What you need is proportions of aggressors stratified by sex in a random, representative sample of the human population. Police don't gather data this way. Scientists (sociologists, anthropologists, etc) that carefully study this matter do. Their studies are valid.
tl;dr Your statistics are flawed.
it's not superficial when you are worried about being blamed for being the victim. Considering how others view you later IS intelligent, prudent behavior. This is important not only in your personal relationships- but legally as well. How you act will change how people treat you.
ReplyDeleteYou're appealing to consequence. Using some consideration to do what is best or right has little to do with others' opinions of you later. If someone who would help you otherwise denies you help, then they are wrong. There's no need to continue or affirm that.
Again, same-sex aggression is more common. Frustration contributes to aggression. Would you be 'bitchy' to every unfamiliar female? Then why should male-directed 'bitchiness' help?
I also think that a good reputation is a valuble asset.
Defending an image can be counterproductive to doing what is best. Simply use good consideration and do what's best.
Unfamiliar females are less threatening than unfamiliar males. Obviously.
ReplyDelete"Defending an image can be counterproductive to doing what is best. Simply use good consideration and do what's best."
ReplyDeleteI am trying to tell you that in my opinion.. protecting my reputation as an intelligent, honest person who does not lead people on is worthwhile, because then I don't have to explain myself to everyone who wants to question whether or not I made myself clear enough, and I don't get hassled so much by people who think I'm easy prey. So to me, my reputation is useful.
I do "Simply use good consideration(?) and do what's best."
That is a little patronising, I'm not actually looking for advice. I'm just trying to explain that if you are right or wrong, you will still have to deal with what other people think. Even if you do the right thing. This may not bother you, but some people feel isolated, victimised, hurt etc.. or just really pissed off, when they are accused of encouraging inaproppriate advances.
Go back and read the story with the waitress picture next to it, most of the comment thread is debating whether the incident was her fault. So. Some people feel like they have to treat people harshly when they first feel threatened, so their attitude isn't interpreted as encouragement or flirting. Because if they are seen as encouraging an abusive incident, not only will they recieve less support, but some people will take it upon themselves to call them a stupid whore who should know better.
This might be easily shrugged off, normally, but if you have been abused in any way, you will be feeling a lot more sensitive.
The satisfaction of knowing you are right isn't that much of a comfort in times like these, so some people adopt the "better safe than sorry" attitude, when dealing with people who set of the alarm bells. I'm not saying I think this is right or wrong. Does this explain why I think taking into consideration what others think of you is not just superficiality?
what's up with the "she allowed him to buy her some underwear, how skanky" comments?
ReplyDeleteIt was a gift from her boyfriend, people! I don't get how getting gifts from your significant other makes you skanky. Please, someone, explain it to me.
'Cause it was, you know, underwear! SEXY underwear! Such a thing has no place in a decent, God-fearing relationship, where people wait until they're married to have sex, after which point they do it with the lights off, under the covers, missionary style, and only with the purpose of begetting children. For an unmarried woman to allow her boyfriend to buy her things that might make her sexually alluring is clearly the height of depravity. No decent woman would allow a boyfriend to see anything beyond the knees, and he should count himself lucky if he gets to see that much!
ReplyDeleteSo the women with the whirlwind relationship...
ReplyDeletewhy did you HATE your husband? Was he obnxious? Ugly?
Maybe there's hope yet.
It amazes me how some men in this thread attempt to deny the undeniable, irrefutable, and patently obvious fact that men are more dangerous to women than women are to men. But that's typical of the misogynistic mindset. Misogynists are bound and determined to blame all problems on women, no matter how much they have to lie and contort things to make their worldview seem even remotely plausible.
ReplyDeleteHey trolls, here's a misogyny test for you:
Q. Something bad happens. Is it the woman's fault?
(A) OF COURSE.
(B) Not enough information.
If you answered (A), then you are a misogynistic 4chan troll doomed never to have a meaningful relationship in your life.
Mack Truck-
ReplyDelete"As far the man who needed therapy to get over his cheating lover? I'm sorry you went through that, but if you come across in real life the way you do on here, it's little wonder you're scaring women away.
When we're trying to get to know someone, them sobbing about a lost lover, admitting to therapy over them, and wanting to commit suicide, is not conducive to romance.
Save that type of talk for your relatives or friends, not your potential mates/lovers."
I will say this one more time, since it obviously didn't get communicated in my original post.
It takes me A LOT to be open these days. the only reason I mention The Greek to my subsequent GF was because she kept pushing me "to be more open". I consider it the height of hypocracy to THEN break up so soon after I did.
Do you honestly think I'd bring it up during a first/second or even THIRD DATE!? It took the woman who I now consider my closest friend THREE YEARS before I was able to confide in her. Needless to say, it wasn't my finest moment and not some I'd even WANT someone to know for a good while of knowing me.
The only reason I'm discussing it now on here is the safety and anonymity of the internet.
Anon 954-
"It's a tough thing. You've been through a lot. some women find it hard to listen about the great true love who drove their new partner to make a suicide attempt. They build up this picture of the person in their mind and feel they can't ever compete or even come close. sometimes too, the dumped partner can come across that way without intending to, or even realizing that they are. I had a few past partners who would moan on and on about someone they had really wanted and could never have, and it made me feel second best, or good enough for now."
See the above comment. But you make a good point about "giving off" something without meaning to. It's something I've wondered myself.
1151 Anon
Anon 924-
ReplyDeleteGuess I'm not as sexist as I thought. I chaose B.
1151 Anon
Unfamiliar females are less threatening than unfamiliar males. Obviously.
ReplyDeleteObviously. Do I need to spell this out? Same-sex aggression is more common: women more often experience aggression from females than males. If you consider aggression threatening and prejudge based on sex, then women are the greater threat. Moreover, male aggression tends to be more open and direct. It's easier to detect, which doesn't help your position.
I am trying to tell you that in my opinion.. protecting my reputation as an intelligent, honest person who does not lead people on is worthwhile[...]
I'm telling you substance matters more than opinion. If convenience matters more to you than doing what's best or right, then you're not deliberately doing either.
This may not bother you, but some people feel isolated, victimised, hurt etc.. or just really pissed off, when they are accused of encouraging inaproppriate advances.
Go back and read the story with the waitress picture next to it, most of the comment thread is debating whether the incident was her fault.
Return to deliberate action based on good consideration. Perhaps they had adequate basis to act (eg, continued, unwelcome advances, situation now clear), should have acted, and did not meaningfully do so. Inaction when you have reason to act is not good or right. You have a right to act in such circumstances and should exercise it. It's a fair criticism.
They are wrong, however, if they disapprove based on unfair criticism. Their opinions have no value.
Either way, poor opinions don't amount to much. People learn to disregard or challenge them.
Anon @ 11:46:
ReplyDeleteDefine "aggression." If it's unpleasant words, big damn deal. If it's a hostile attitude, ditto. I'm worried about physical harm, not verbal nastiness. A woman might be more likely to cop an attitude with me, but I'm more likely to be assaulted by a man. One of those things would bother me much more than the other.
FrolickingNomad
ReplyDeleteTrue. While words may be deeply hurtfull, they can't physically restrain you.
Anon 11:46
It's funny how you focus on female passive agression, while remaining completely oblivious to the fact that how others view you deeply affects your sense of identity and self worth. If people didn't care about the opinion of others passive agressive strategies wouldn't work nor would nice young men mind being the object of female distrust.
^ well said.
ReplyDeleteDefine "aggression."
ReplyDeleteLook up a standard social science definition. Any intent to 'cause pain or harm' should be unwelcome, so directing coldness only toward men when unwelcome behavior comes more often from the same sex is confused.
It's funny how you focus on female passive agression, while remaining completely oblivious to the fact that how others view you deeply affects your sense of identity and self worth.
Only if you care. Intelligent people don't. Caring is unnecessary.
If people didn't care about the opinion of others passive agressive strategies wouldn't work nor would nice young men mind being the object of female distrust.
Even when you don't care someone is wrong, they're still wrong. And you have every reason to point out it's wrong if only because repeated wrong behavior is wasteful.
Did you ignore the part about unfounded aggression being counterproductive because it causes frustration?
you are causing me frustration. Let it go, man, let it go... :)
ReplyDeleteLook upon the world with love.
ReplyDeleteI had a friend who met a guy who told her he wanted to marry her within a week. He drove all of her friends crazy; he insulted both me & my husband within 20 minutes of meeting him. He drove all her friends away, then he was her only friend...then he "had a rough patch" and she started paying for his car, and his rent...then one day she walked in on him having sex with her roommate.
ReplyDeleteAnybody who wants to talk about marriage almost right away is probably conning you.
then one day she walked in on him having sex with her roommate.
ReplyDeleteFuck yeah!
Drummer in a christian band. Engaged or married (never fully came clear) with a baby on the way. Fortunately I met and became fast friends with someone from his hometown who finally clued me in. (His bandmates looked the other way.)
ReplyDeletewhy the FUCK does it always take at least two weeks for a new post to go up?
ReplyDelete(for some reason I can never copy/paste here, otherwise I would put down the whole quote)
ReplyDeleteTo whichever Anonymous said that "female passivity is a myth...": you go on to point out that female aggression is channeled in a different way (more underhanded/subtle, basically) while male aggression is more open and obvious--which anyone who's ever gone to junior high school already knows, by the way. You also state that women are more likely to be aggressive than men.
So...in other words, a strange man who approaches me at the gym is slightly likely to drag me out back and rape me, while a woman who approaches me is really likely to make a catty remark about my outfit, and therefore I should treat both sexes with equal caution.
Um...okay then.
And by the way--those of us who are reticent when strange men approach us might not be afraid of "aggression" per se; we might just not want to be hit on. No, not even by a nice man who doesn't want to make our skin into a coat. And being super-smiley and responsive to a guy who's hitting on us is only going to encourage him.
Finally: when a woman is being hit on/harrassed/assaulted and doesn't scream in the guy's face, general consensus from guys seems to be that she wasn't clear enough about defending her boundaries. When women try to explain that we're socialized to always "be nice" and "not complain", guys don't seem to understand what we're talking about and can't figure out why the victim didn't just tell the guy to go away.
This is it, dude. Right here. People are bitching about women acting slightly cold when a strange guy approaches them. Not blowing a rape whistle, not telling him to fuck off, just...not being super-welcoming and smiley to every random person who approaches. And this is the kind of bullshit society feeds us for OUR ENTIRE LIVES. "Be nice!" "Don't act like a bitch" "Smile!"
Guys, you can lambast us for being "too nice" or you can lambast us for not being nice enough, but for fuck's sake PICK ONE AND STICK WITH IT.
I personally love it that my girlfriend is cold as ice to people she's just met, female or male. I've seen her in action and was frustrated at first, but now I appreciate it.
ReplyDeletewhich anyone who's ever gone to junior high school already knows, by the way
ReplyDeletethen you should be insulted, because it's that obvious
in other words, a strange man who approaches me at the gym is slightly likely to drag me out back and rape me
which is open and obvious (you would see it), and would succeed in the safety of a public area with all its witnesses like a gym only if you didn't make a scene and calmly volunteered yourself to a secluded area with strange men
while a woman who approaches me is really likely to make a catty remark about my outfit
because that's the only indirect way to cause pain or harm? there isn't sending other people or setting up adverse situations? then there's harassment, psychological abuse, and ruining relationships with your work, friends, and family.
Um...okay then.
right. um...okay.
those of us who are reticent when strange men approach us might not be afraid of "aggression" per se; we might just not want to be hit on.
reticent (ie, quiet) is not cold and disdainful. talking is not hitting on. can't treat someone human for talking to you, because they're male?
This is it, dude. Right here. People are bitching about women acting slightly cold when a strange guy approaches them.
Not so. Prejudgment. Cold and off-putting (ie, disdain). Learn to read.
when a woman is being hit on/harrassed/assaulted and doesn't scream in the guy's face, general consensus from guys seems to be that she wasn't clear enough about defending her boundaries
keyword: is
replace: scream in the guy's face -> act to stop it
When women try to explain that we're socialized to always "be nice" and "not complain", guys don't seem to understand what we're talking about and can't figure out why the victim didn't just tell the guy to go away.
Maybe they should give up what their parents, teachers, and church told them to do in grade school for a change, like the rest of everyone else with a mind of their own. No one told women to join the workforce, or minorities to defend their rights, or anyone to disobey authoritarian figures. No one told us to party hard, or have promiscuous sex, or do as we please. No one told you to prejudge men and treat them as threats. I guess no one does.
Guys, you can lambast us for being "too nice" or you can lambast us for not being nice enough
Here's a strange idea: treat aggressors as threats. You don't have to be 'too nice' or 'not nice enough'. You don't have to prejudge. Only look, consider it, and act accordingly.
Right. I'll be sure to stand back and watch for all those women who approach me at the gym to ruin my relationships with my work, friends, and family. Thanks for the hot tip.
ReplyDeleteI'll also make sure I observe a guy's behaviour before I decide what his intentions are--like, if I'm concentrating on working out and some guy I hadn't noticed before suddenly appears next to me and says "hi", I'll stare at him slack-jawed for five or ten minutes, waiting for him to do something else so I can get some kind of vibe from him. Then I will know how friendly I should act.
And no, "talking to" is not inherently synonymous with "hitting on"...but when you're a chick (of a certain age, anyway; I can't speak for senior citizens), and a strange man talks to you, 85% of the time it does in fact turn into a come-on. And after the first two dozen or so times that you act friendly to strangers and then the conversation goes to an unwanted place, a girl starts being more cautious.
I'll be sure to stand back and watch for all those women who approach me at the gym to ruin my relationships with my work, friends, and family
ReplyDeletewhich is no more absurd than a man dragging you out of a gym full of people and raping you. Moreover, cold, prejudgmental disdain has no direct value in preventing that either. In fact, it might motivate it.
I'll stare at him slack-jawed for five or ten minutes, waiting for him to do something else so I can get some kind of vibe from him
Now you're being stupid and ever narrowminded. Maybe you shouldn't breathe or beat your heart either. It's not like looking out for aggression instead of sex is a compromising, lengthy task either.
85% of the time it does in fact turn into a come-on
which is not aggression. Handle that your own way. Often, when someone hits on you, it's obvious. That's the idea. Prejudging them to be aggressive, however, is not smart.
Wow, uh...
ReplyDeleteI've been reading both PLFM and WWHM for a while now (their both great Weas, keep em coming!) but I've only posted once or twice so far. But this time I just have to say: WTF?
What is with the guy who hates the woman featured in this post because the guy she dated was British (Anglophobe, anyone? Unless I'm mistaken and he just hates her for having nice underwear, I'm not sure...)
And the robot Anon who posted at 10:44? Yikes, program some emotions into that mainframe of yours please!
And I won't even go into the misogyny and trollishness stalking the boards right now...
The thing is I (and many others I think) used to enjoy reading the comments almost as much as the posts themselves because of the interesting discussions and insights they provided. Now I don't usually read them at all because some people won't stop feeding the trolls.
Weas, I'm begging you to disable Anonymous posts, because I'd rather not be able to post at all if only that means I wouldn't have to trawl through 100+ comments, searching for some insight amongst all of the rubbish posted by the trolls and men with chips on their shoulders bigger than their penises.
*climbs off soapbox*
Disable anonymous and the blog becomes a woman-only private club. Because, as the frequency of troll accusations shows, anything less than total assent to the post's slant is heresy. I disagree with many anons and some are indeed trolls, but registration won't solve anything.
ReplyDeleteNo, total assent isn't a requirement. Heresy is welcomed. But...
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to have a discussion or be insightful when the troll brigade starts its "you should have been more clear" or "don't be cold upfront" nonsense.
STEPHEN ROOT IS A KLINGON!
ReplyDeleteI post as anonymous because I can't be bothered signing in.
ReplyDeleteHowever what some of the Anons are saying is freaking the hell out of me, especially the freaky dude, Anon 831. Rape much?
I don't have a problem with women not wanting to communicate. It's a woman's prerogative as to whether or not she wants to communicate.
I'd be absolutely fine with some comment moderation, abolishing Anonymous posters and even deleting some of the trollers posts.
The comments used to be hilarious and now they consist of women having to defend their self-preservation. All because trolls think every women in the world should be nice to them. I reserve the right to ignore people when I want, so does everyone.
Deal with it, spud.
As a guy I preferred it when almost all the posters were women, and it was a secret women's club.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason to hate men I guess.
Weasel, do something about the trolls or this site will be ruined. I am not going to bother checking in if all I get to read is troll dung.
The trolls are just going against what people say just to get everyone riled up. It doesn't matter what we say, they're going say exactly the opposite because they find amusement in creating chaos. 'Cuz, y'know, it's "for the lulz".
ReplyDelete