Friday, April 3, 2009

Lesson Learned

Nicole admits she had gotten a bit lonely.

New city, new job, and a long distance relationship that had recently broken down due to her boyfriend's lack of commitment.

Actually, he had plenty of commitment, but it was more focused on Nicole's best friend back home now that Nicole was no longer in town.

"It just happened, I didn't mean to hurt you," explained Nicole's BFF.

Yeah, whatever, you cold and soulless cock hoarder.

Anyway, Nicole decided to troll the murky, stagnant pond of internet dating sites to jumpstart her social life. After her personal ad had been posted for only a couple days, she got a really nice email from Andrew.

Andrew explained he had just gotten out of a long relationship and wasn't ready to jump into anything, but he really liked Nicole's personal ad.

Nicole checked out Andrew's profile on a different site, and liked what she saw, so she emailed Andrew back and the two began regularly chatting over the internet.

Andrew lived about 80 miles from Nicole, and Nicole was apprehensive about meeting someone so quickly over the internet, so she admits she wasn't exactly pushing to meet with Andrew right off the bat.

Andrew and Nicole began chatting every night for hours on end, and Nicole admits she began using Andrew as an outlet for her troubled emotional state. She told him about problems she was having at her job, and at one point sought out help from Andrew about some issues with her car.

Two points that would eventually come back to haunt her.

One night Andrew told Nicole he wanted to send Nicole over some pictures so Nicole could see what he "actually" looked like. Andrew sent her three pictures via email the next day, and Nicole opened them while she was at work.

After opening the first picture, Nicole says was quite disappointed. Andrew had apparently posted some very old pictures on his dating profile, because he didn't look much like the guy she saw online. Says Nicole, "He was quite out of shape and he had grown some facial hair, and he wearing a dirty white tank top."

The second picture wasn't any more enticing, and then she got to the third. Andrew had sent her a picture of his dick. "I was so totally grossed out," she said.

When Nicole logged on that night, Andrew was waiting for her.

Nicole: why did you send me that?
Andrew: what
Nicole: you know what
Andrew: ur going to see it eventually lol
Nicole: no im not
Andrew: you don't like it?
Nicole: that was so rude i opened it at work
Andrew: show it to anyone did you
Nicole: you dont get it do you
Andrew: get what
Nicole: youre an ass and you dont even realize it goodbye andy


... and with that Nicole logged off and decided to not talk to Andrew anymore.

Nicole ignored Andrew from that point on, but Andrew didn't quite ignore Nicole. Andrew sent her emails, sometimes 2 or 3 a day, asking her to log on that night so he could apologize. Nicole never did, hoping the problem would just go away, but it didn't.

Nicole,

I miss you and I want to sincerely apologize. I dont want things to turn out this way. I made a stupid mistake and I shouldnt have sent that to you and I apologize for that again but is that a reason to shut me out of your life? Was it that serious to you? Please talk to me tonight, I miss you and want to know how XXXXXXXXXX is doing. I dont think we should throw away this friendship over nothing? I'll be on about 10 if you want to talk. Hope youre there!

Andy

Nicole continued to read Andrew's emails for about a week, but never responded to them.

Two weeks later, Nicole was at her desk at work when a co-worker came up to her and told her there was someone waiting for her in the lobby.

His name was Andy.

"I was freaking out," says Nicole, "so I told her to tell him I wasn't there and I went and hid in the back office for the rest of the day. I didn't know what to do and at this point I was pretty scared because he knew where I worked."

And then it gets worse.

Nicole had a male co-worker walk her out to the parking lot after work. There was a note on her car underneath the windshield wiper. "I had totally forgotten that he knew what kind of car I drove because we had talked about it online."

Nicole read the note.

"I know you are here and I only came to apologize to your fat face. Fuck you bitch!!! You better watch your back!!!"

Nicole didn't know what to do at this point, and says she felt like she was going to have a nervous breakdown.

Later that night, Nicole says she gathered up the courage to sit down and write an email to Andrew expressing that she wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. She sent the following email:

I no longer want anything to do with you Andy XXXXXXXX. I do not want you to contact me through email or instant messenger. Please do not come to my job or anywhere near my place of employment. If you ever contact me again I will file a restraining order against you which will become a matter of public record. I advise you to take this email seriously. I have kept your emails and I have the note you left on my car as evidence. DO NOT CONTACT ME AGAIN.

Nicole

Nicole sent the email to Andrew and got an almost instant response from Andrew.

Fuck you cunt quit contacting me.

Nicole says she thought about filing a restraining order right away, but didn't. She didn't sleep well that night, or the whole week for that matter. She had a male co-worker meet her in the parking lot every morning before work, and every night he walked her to her car. "I didn't go anywhere without someone by my side, and had to have my sister take me to the grocery store."

Her threat to Andrew apparently worked, because Nicole didn't hear from Andrew again.

Until a month later.

Nicole left work to find someone had smashed a milkshake all over the passenger door of her car. "I knew in my heart it was probably Andy, but I figured the police would tell me I had to prove it."

She didn't need to.

Nicole came home from work to find an email from Andrew on her computer.

"Hey you dumb cunt just wanted to let you know I've been thinking about you."

Attached was a picture of Andrew jacking off.

Nicole immediately called her friend to come over. They gathered up all the evidence Nicole had collected from Andrew, and filed a restraining order against him that night.

Thankfully, Nicole never heard from Andrew again.

Two years later, Nicole says it had a profound effect on her life. She ended up selling her car, leaving her job, and moving back home. It wasn't all about Andrew, but she says he was certainly a motivating factor.

Once home, ironically, her ex-boyfriend tried to re-kindle their relationship after he had slept with her best friend.

"I just couldn't win with men," Nicole says, "I was seriously thinking about living a lesbian lifestyle on a permanent basis."

Her one small victory in all of this?

"I heard (my ex boyfriend) got herpes and gave it to my ex friend. It couldn't have happened to two more deserving people."

Nicole says she is now happily engaged to a great man, but wants to send a word of advice to people reading PLFM.

"Looking back now, I realize I was naive and this was partially my fault for telling Andrew where I worked. But never reveal anything about yourself online to anyone, because you never know who you are dealing with."

Good advice Nicole.

Good advice.

If you've been stalked, feel free to post it in the comments.

If you have letters, feel free to send them in to PLFM at weaselworden@yahoo.com.

219 comments:

  1. Never been stalked, thank god. I'd like to think it's because of my superb crazy spotting ability, but I'm pretty sure it's luck.

    Anyway, why do men think the dick pic will work? I mean really.

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  2. I'm glad Nicole is ok and I hope Andrew is suffering from uncontrollable, spastic, ulcerative colitis.

    Nearly every post on here makes me embarrassed to be male.

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  3. I second the spastic colitis sentiment! HAH!

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  4. What the hell? It's like, "I really enjoy talking to you. By the way, here's a picture of my cock."


    This was about ten years ago, don't know if he counts as a stalker.

    A lack of an actual DnD group meant I gamed online where different time zones and conflicting schedules didn't matter so much. Another gamer and I became rather friendly with each other and began talking regularly outside of the rpg. After a couple months he stated that he liked me more than a friend and asked if I'd be interested in dating.

    I was a naive 17 y/o, he had always been very nice, and I'd always had a thing for cute, funny brunettes, so I accepted. Cue the online internet dating game.

    This was my first 'real' boyfriend, so I really had no idea what long-distance relationships entailed. It was pretty much like our friendship, and I was content with planning to meet him for real some time in the future.

    After a month or so, he began asking for my phone number to call and actually speak with his girlfriend. I had no concrete reason not to give it to him, but some voice in my head always said, 'No, don't do it.' I kept finding ways to brush him off, then he started asking for my address to visit me. Again the voice said "No." and I made some other excuses.

    About two months in, one of the other gamers I was friendly with, but whom I hadn't seen in a while, asked me flat out, what was up with him? I replied that we were dating online.

    And here's where it gets fun.

    Gamer buddy tells me my 'boyfriend' has done this same routine with multiple female gamers online in the past, all 15-17 years old. (He's 20-something.) Typically it starts like it did with me, but they always agreed to meet him, ended up having sex with him, then they get dumped after they find out about all the others and confront him. I had gamed with a couple of these girls and they had never mentioned him.

    My lovely 'boyfriend' had also been going around all the boards I frequented, and warning people that I was his and they weren't allowed to contact or talk with me anymore. Oh, and he took a couple of my original characters and ruined them in other games, but I guess that's a minor offense compared to the above.

    Next time he came online I fucking blasted him. He promptly played the horribly-misunderstood victim, and I was cruel and manipulative for making him worship me more than any of the others. He said I made him cry so hard his parents ran into his room to see what was wrong, but he couldn't tell them, no, I have shattered his heart so. (Yes, he still lived with his parents.)

    I told him to get fucked by a rabid boar.

    He never contacted me again, though an acquaintance who made that mistake in the past said he's still going around seducing underage girls. Fucking creep.

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  5. I can't say that I've ever had a stalker who left notes on my car or visited me at work, but I did date a nutcase when I was 14 who clearly never got over me. After we broke up he called me dozens of times a day and then eventually I stopped hearing from him.

    Then, years later, I heard through mutual acquaintances that he had a daughter with another woman and named her after me. Of course, he didn't bother telling the mother of his baby why he liked that name so much, until afterwards. And I have a very, very uncommon name - there's no pretending that it was a coincidence.

    So out there is some poor little girl who is named after her father's ex-girlfriend, who dumped him when he was 15. Classy.

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  6. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  7. Mine also happened when I was much younger.

    When I was about 13, my friend and I would take the bus and walk to her house after summer school. Being that we were young , naive females, we approached a group of guys at the park by her house one day just to see what they were up to, maybe make some new friends. One of them decided he liked me and from the next day until the end of the summer he would meet us at the bus stop on his bike and ride next to us as we walked to her house. He would then call as soon as we got there but I always made an excuse to get off of the phone. (BTW he called there for me because we told him we were sisters)

    I never did see him after that summer, but I heard he was working as a cashier at Big Lots.

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  8. Whoops.

    I change the names. Sometimes I forget.

    Please disregard that.

    Will delete to protect the innocent.

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  9. Thanks for catching that anon.

    I deleted your comment too, just in case.

    Remember guys, I change all the names in these stories for obvious reasons.

    I need to start using "Change All".

    If you guys see me slip again, please email me.

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  10. This was pretty terrifying...these letters are slowly becoming less hilariously ridiculous, sad and/or just socially inept, and more actually frightening.

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  11. I just hope that by reading some of these stories, men realize just why so many women are so very cautious or nervous about opening up too much to men they've just met. Gendered violence is very real, and the facts are most women are raped by male acquaintances than by strangers... those things can make dating or even casual romantic meetings with men can make women feel pretty vulnerable.

    Please don't take it personally, guys, just be understanding!

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  12. This post really freaked me out...I think I've watched too many episodes of CSI, but Nicole is really lucky *shivers*

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  13. Seeing as how this blog is still relatively new, what would you guys rather hear?

    I seem to hear half from both; half want funny, half want truly "psychotic".

    A mix? Funny? Psychotic?

    Not really sure what to focus on sometimes, and I don't care either way. Just curious.

    I'll check back frequently in the next couple days.

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  14. I'd say post a mix. The psychotic stories are scary, but educational.

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  15. weasel, LOVE the blog! and i agree w/ anon 1:47, a mix would be good. after all, it's real life. and real life is funny and scary and all the emotions in between.

    keep up the good work!

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  16. Oh, please post a funny one next, because otherwise I at least am going to start freaking out about ever going anywhere outside of my own home! Or speaking to anyone. And I'd quite like to continue chatting to my guy friends without worrying they're going to psychotic on me!

    Having said that: the name of the blog *is* "Psychotic Letters From Men"...

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  17. A mix would be good. Like the previous poster said, the scary stories are educational.

    Everyone should go read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker if they haven't already. Good read about trusting your instincts--if something feels off with a person, it probably is.

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  18. I wouldn't be opposed to a funny post, but I do agree with anon 5:54 [ Having said that: the name of the blog *is* "Psychotic Letters From Men"... ].

    The SO and I enjoy reading PLFM and WWHM and obviously so do many others. So don't sweat it.

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  19. I once inherited a stalker from my mother.

    That was...odd.

    I'm an illustrator, I have a lot of artwork on-line, and I get a fair amount of e-mail from people wanting to talk about the art. So one day, I get a note from somebody saying something along the lines of "Hey, I think I went to grad school with your mother, nifty art, I'm a photographer myself, etc."

    This is pretty standard stuff, other than having possibly known my mom, but hey, small world. I dash off a note saying...well..."Hey, small world," and thanking him for admiring the art. (I have a pretty standard two-line response to this, because unless they ask a direct question, there are only so many ways you can say "I'm glad you like it, thanks for writing!")

    Next e-mail--and I wish I knew where these were today, I kept 'em but they're buried in my computer somewhere--I get "Let's see, if memory serves, you liked unicorns, had blond hair, your father was an officer in the Navy..." and proceeds to run down quite an alarming spiel of information about me at age six (hence the unicorns) that didn't so much set off my alarms as send me to Defcon One, cue sirens and heavy metal blast doors crashing down. Also, there was more stuff about his art, chakras, and crackpot New Age theories of...whatever.

    At this point, I call my mother and say "Um, Mom, do you know this guy?"

    "Oh lord..." Well, my mom's a sweetheart, and at one point, when she was in grad school, she had dated this guy. He quickly proved to be a call-the-police style lunatic, to the point of attacking the windshield of her car with his fists when she drove away. Despite the fact that they didn't really have stalker laws at the time, the police had actually been helpful and gotten him to leave her alone. She felt terrible that I'd somehow run into him, even though it wasn't even remotely her fault.

    Well, hmm. Now I had this alarming e-mail from my mother's ex-stalker and a lot of attachments, mostly unread and unopened, about souls and transmigration and how he was photographing the serpent Kundalini or some crap--and no idea how to reply. My biggest concern wasn't that he'd show up on my doorstep, it was that if I told him to go to hell because he was a jerk to my mother, he might show up on HER doorstep, and that didn't bear thinking about.

    Fortunately, for once three days of dithering produced a good result--before I ever came to a decision, I got a furious e-mail saying that if I was just going to steal his ideas and not talk to him, he'd have nothing more to do with me. I was ordered to delete all our correspondance and never speak of this again.

    Needless to say, I didn't do either one, but still, it was a peculiar few days.

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  20. When I was 14, I was friends with this guy. He was quiet and a bit nerdy, but so was I so we hung out. After a while I realized he had a crush on me, but he was a really nice guy and a good friend so I tried to act normal and not ruin the friendship. A few months later he told me how he felt and I told him that I was flattered but did not feel the same way. Things were normal for a while but then he started calling my house more and more, later and later. He would be sitting on my porch when I came home from school and would tell me how much he loved me. I started to get worried but being an insecure 14 year old, I was not up to the task of telling a boy, no matter how creepy, to eff off. Then came the final straw: He called me at 3am to tell me how many times he had jacked off about me that day. I told him never to call me again. A few weeks later I was hanging out in the park with some other friends and he came up to me and tried to once again proclaim his undying love when my friend got up and stormed at him. She pushed him into the pond in the park. He never bothered me again.

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  21. Gotta agree with Pai. I don't understand why guys don't get this stuff. I mean, surely they get plastered with the same amount of internet safety stuff as we do?

    I didn't have a stalker so much as a stalker threat, an internet friendship that turned one-sidedly romantic after we met in person once. This guy was 6 years my senior, and I was barely 18 at the time. He literally could not stop telling me that he loved me, how I changed his life, how I was like a little piece of God to him etc. I would get a 6-page essay about it weekly if not daily. But he just couldn't understand why my red-alert came on every time he offered to come down and take me away if I just said the word. The guy had my HOME ADDRESS.

    When your romantic promises sound like threats, you might be a stalker.

    I've been wanting to send some of his correspondence in to PLFM, but there's just so much damn text that I don't know if it's possible.

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  22. When I was 14/15 I was SUPER obsessed with myspace and would add anyone who wanted to. Well without thinking I added this 24+ year old guy. He sent me a few messages, but I never responded with more than 1/2 sentences.

    Well one night I'm sitting at my house doing homework and the phone rings, i pick it up and its the guy from online.

    I never gave him my number. I don't know how he got it probably through some myspace stuff (My high school was listed and I was the only girl with my name there).

    He started saying really inappropriate things to me, "I want to fuck you, when are you going to meet up with me". At first I just sai "F-U creep" and hung up. Then the calls flooded in at first I picked them up and hung up, but then I just let it ring. After about an hour and 5 phone calls my parents were suspicious and checked the voice mail.

    He had left messages like,
    "I m going to come to your house, fuck your mom while your dad is watching and then kill him and rape you" Type stuff.

    He called again, my dad answered and told him not to call back. He said on the phone to my dad the same type of stuff about "fucking his daughter".

    We called the cops and the guy had routed his phone call through someplace else, so they couldn't just block the number. We had to change all our phone lines, delete my myspace, etc

    CREEP.

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  23. I met this guy on a chatroom (i know baddd idea haha)and we chatted on yahoo for a day. One day.

    The next night we are chatting again and he mentions hes in the national guard...i mention my dad was in the military.

    He starts grilling me 'what branch? whats his last name? where did he serve?' which was my first red flag.

    So we are chatting somemore and he says he has to go run errands and i tell him bye...he replies 'bye babe cant wait to talk when i get back xoxo' ....after ONE day of internet chatting

    It gets better.

    He comes back and ims me 'hows my baby doing?' and i dont reply right away because i was getting a sweatshirt and he starts sending me rapidfire accusations of why im not answering him. I tell him 'listen, i was getting a sweatshirt cuz im about to go out with friends'

    wrong thing to say. he tells me im not allowed to go out with them, thats cheating on him. I went anyways. He now floods my inbox with emails and i cant log in to messenger anymore...

    moral of the story? Watch who you meet in chatrooms.

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  24. I was 21, working as a temp at a huge international firm. One of the sales guys started making inappropriate comments to me - such as "You must be a hippie lesbian - look at how you dress!" I wrote it off as basic stupid shit people shouldn't say and pretty much ignored the sick feeling in my stomach when he was around.

    There was a tornado warning one day when I was working and the staff got sent home. Typically, my commute was 1 1/2 hours by bus, and this guy lived my way. He gave me a ride (mistake #1). Shortly after that, he found out where I hung out online in those days and sent me a message asking if I wanted to have an affair with him. I should note this guy was particularly creepy on many levels - besides being married, his wife had the same name as me and he had a severely disabled child at home. He justified asking me to have an affair by saying his friend said he should find someone outside of his marriage.

    I turned him down flat, of course, and his comments about me continued at work. I made a complaint to my temp agency who refused to step in on my behalf because I'd "fraternized" with him. Instead, they offered to let me walk off the job. I refused, taking my case to my on-site supervisor. This resulted in a stressful and ineffective meeting with the creep in question. I finished out my contract and left the company, figuring my experience with this guy was over.

    Not so. He called me in the middle of the night, every night, for over a year. He showed up outside my house, even after I moved. He drove past my office. Then about a year after I finished at the temp job, he emailed me, again requesting I have an affair with him and saying that we'd "gotten off on the wrong foot".

    I called his boss, as this had come from his work email. His boss, who hadn't been there for the fiasco while I was working there, was furious. He told me he'd take care of it, and if said creep ever contacted me again, in any way, to call him and they'd get their legal team in on it.

    I found out later, as well, that this guy had a record for sexual harrassment - he'd actually lost his previous job due to it. The company knew, and still employed him.

    Also, the temp agency that refused to step in to help me? OfficeTeam - I refuse to work for them any longer and tell everyone I know to stay as far away as possible.

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  25. When I was in my early 20s, I went out a couple of times with a guy I met at work. It was nothing serious -- a few lunches and a group outing (with my friends, not his). Then I got a bad feeling in my gut and stopped contacting him. He started sending me obscene e-mails about wanting to suck my toes and about how he thought about my feet when he masturbated, etc. Eventually, he started a foot fetish blog that he dedicated to me. I hear it's still out there and he's still writing about me and my feet (which he never actually saw).

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  26. Wasn't really a stalker, but an older (college aged) brother of one of my brother's friends definitely started trying to intimidate me into getting physically closer to him (I was maybe 13?). He'd seen me maybe once across the room and then was literally cornering me. He had a weird smile on and was starting to sweat...

    And my parents wondered why it took me until 21 to actually date someone. Still get the creeps remembering it.

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  27. weasel, as a man, I'd appreciate a few funny ones now and then. All the psychos you post must us all look really mad and sad and bad. Dr Seuss anyone?

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  28. Anlina S said:
    "Then, years later, I heard through mutual acquaintances that he had a daughter with another woman and named her after me. Of course, he didn't bother telling the mother of his baby why he liked that name so much, until afterwards. And I have a very, very uncommon name - there's no pretending that it was a coincidence."

    Hey! I did that! Kind of. I had a girlfriend at high school whose name I have always liked. When my wife was pregnant with our daughter I suggested it as a name, she liked it too. She knew it was the name of a high school ex, and was confident enough to be freaked out by that. It's a fairly uncommon name too.

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  29. I live in a small community and I had a 'photo of the day' blog. The pictures were never of me and I didn't take pictures of people. The pictures were mostly of my cats, things I saw on my morning walk, things I'd cooked, places I'd visted... Interesting to my friends, but not to anyone else.

    Or so I thought.

    One day at work someone came in and started talking about me, he had enough personal info about me to make my coworkers think he actually knew me so they called me out to the reception area.

    I had no idea who this person was, and when I asked he said he read my blog. I was polite to him and thanked him for liking my blog. I also very politely told him I wasn't interested in new friendships. I thought that was that.

    Nope.

    The next night one of my tires was flat. When I took it in to have it repaired they said there was nothing wrong with it. My tires were flattened on an almost daily basis after that. I filed a police report every time it happened.

    Then, after two weeks, all the windows in my car were shot out.

    The police started patrolling my street more often and caught my blog reader skulking in the neighborhood.

    I was able to get a restraining order, but, I took down all references to myself and my blog. I worked hard to remove all references to me on all interenet search engines.

    This backfired though because I wasn't hired for a job because my lack of an internet presence 'raised a red flag' with the employer.

    I've decided I just can't win. :P

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  30. Now that I know this blog exists, I wish I had kept some of the MSN / facebook / email messages from a former stalker of mine.

    Anyhoo, we'd been friends in high school, and we got along. He wasn't my favourite person, but when he got engaged to my best friend, I decided to make the most of it. The three of us went to colleges in different states, but we would have three-way phone calls or meet up on MSN. But it started that when my friend logged off to go to bed, he would start asking me really /obscene/ and personal questions, or telling me about him masturbating, or wanting me to turn the webcam on. Um. NO. Who does that anyways, but especially to your FIANCE'S BEST FRIEND. I would tell him goodbye, at which point he'd get all capslocky with "NO. YOU CAN'T. TALK TO ME." Then when I DID log off, he would call. (this would be 3am my time, btw), but since I had call display I ignored it.

    I started appearing offline on MSN and unplugging my phone in the evenings. This meant, of course, that much of the time I couldn't talk to my friend either. But one day I got an MSN message (while appearing offline) saying "I KNOW YOU'RE THERE."

    Stopped using that account. I wanted to tell him to fuck off (and these days, I probably would have) but I was still a teenager and his fiance was my best friend, and someone I could talk to when I was away at this new school in a new state.

    Anyways, he stopped bothering me late in my second year, so I just forgot it, and then I moved to an apartment out of res so he no longer had my phone number or address. So I thought that was that until my friend dumped his ass the next year. I was deleting a lot of old middle school / high school friends on facebook with whom I hadn't spoken in years, and he happened to be one of them. Then I got this whiny bitchy message about "how could you do that? Nice to see how you treat your FRIENDS. You and I were friends too, you know, not just because of her." It was really whiny and pathetic, not psychotic, and I blocked him from finding/contacting me again.

    Um, let's see. Because I only tolerated your skeezy ass for so long BECAUSE of her? So. SO happy she dumped him. But I hate that he even knows what city I live in. Creep.

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  31. mr. mrs. fangfaceApril 4, 2009 at 2:54 PM

    Don't feel bad, Sparkywonderlizard. The males featured here are entitled, petulant children with a few (or many) screws knocked loose. Being a male =/= being a man.

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  32. Not really stalking, but still an interesting story...

    I was involved in an emotionally abusive relationship for about 2 years and finally grew the brains and balls to get out of it. Well, Mr. I'm The Boss suddenly turns into a whimpering pile of pathetic and calls me, crying, all the time (4 years older than me, as well). I had dropped the bomb but not totally broken it off (mistake #84646347) so I tried to help him through it. Bad idea. He showed up unannounced at my apartment at college (hour drive for him) and I had to let him in even though my roommates didn't want me to. This was during finals.

    He stayed there for 3 days, in his underwear in my bed, crying nonstop and not eating, not getting up. He was threatening that if I made him leave, he wouldn't make it home alive. I couldn't study for my GIANT final the next day, so I finally decided it would be kinder to call his parents than campus security. When I told him that he freaked out and clung to my leg (yes, like a 4-year-old) and by the time I finally got out of the room, my roommate was standing outside with a hammer... ready to jump into action! Too funny. I did eventually call his parents and they came and got him. It was amazing, when I told him they were there and that I was going to get them from the parking lot, he got dressed and cool in under a minute.

    He still showed up outside my house occasionally. This was right before Christmas, and on Christmas morning he showed up on my doorstep with a Santa hat, a goofy smile, and arms FULL of presents. I had to get my mom to tell him to go away.

    It was absolutely the worst breakup I ever had to deal with.

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  33. I have something to share, though not on such a horrible level.
    I met this guy in a chat room (I know,mistake #1)and we had a lot in common and seemed to hit it off alright, so I gave him my Yahoo screen name, since that was the one that I gave to everyone at that time. We talked for a long time, and I really found myself attracted to what I had seen of his personality.
    Time went on and we got closer and I started to think of him in romantic terms. That's when he told me he was married. So I decided to just be friends with him and pursue other romantic interests.
    Right around then, I met my current boyfriend. We spend a lot of time talking online because he's over in the UK, and the guy I was friends with started getting jealous, telling me he didn't trust him, and how I wasn't allowed to have anyone else but him in my life, because I was his.
    Then it escalated....fast. He had gotten my old cell phone number somehow and started calling me constantly, telling me how his wife didn't make him happy and how I was his soul mate. I changed my number and deleted him off my friends list, but he just kept coming....he had gotten my MSN screen name, which not many people even had and started calling me a whore and a cheating bitch....
    I wish I had of kept the final conversation..I know everyone would have gotten a good laugh out of it...after the creepiness wore off....it was funny, yet stalkerish all at the same time.

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  34. @ Serendipity:

    "Get fucked like a rabid boar" made me spray my cookie. Too funny.

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  35. Dear Nicole...sorry you had to go through that. I'm glad you found someone good.

    Seriously...what is with men these days??? Asshole.

    And as per the stalking question, I felt like mine was stalking me, but he's gone away. (He did try to contact me over my birthday weekend, but I told him no and he hasn't contacted me again.)

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  36. My vote is for a mix.

    I actually like seeing the scary ones 'cause I think it'll make people (male and female alike) more likely to "see it coming" if they end up dealing with such a person.

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  37. I had a stalker in college. Went via bus to the grocery store, chatted briefly with a guy in the bus shelter and on the bus (I think we were similar majors or something) and when the bus pulled up in front of the cafeteria/mail center, I got out, went in, and checked my mail.
    The next day, he's sitting at a bench where he can see the wall of mailboxes. Strange. I went to the cafeteria, and figured I'd get my mail later (I'm paranoid by default). He comes in and asks to sit with me. Eh, maybe he's lonely. It's not like there aren't two hundred people around.
    My mistake. He starts following me everywhere, even after I told him to leave me alone. I forgot his name, but he's showing up outside my classes, he's following me around campus, and he keeps hanging out in the common area front of the mailboxes where he can read the numbers. Luckily, I knew my RA's mailroom schedule, and she was nice enough to pull my mail so he never saw what room I lived in.
    Thanksgiving break comes along, and I go home, where my dad tells me to file a report the second I step back on campus. I also talk to my 2nd degree black belt friend, and get a personalized self-defense course. I still feel like an idiot, I mean, he's like a shadow, but he hadn't done anything other than be annoying, and I'm pretty good about going in different doors to the dorm or ducking in one door to the women's bathroom and out the other. I think I'm handling it.
    I reported to him to campus police, as per instructions, which was a frustrating experience. I'd been so damn busy dodging the guy I never got his full name and he's of rather average height and build. They believed me, and told me to call them the second I saw him again... which happened to be about three days later.
    Apparently he thought it was time to move on to a physical relationship, and grabbed my shoulders while leaning in to kiss me. I forgot most of the self-defense my friend taught me, but attempted to lean back and drive my knee into stalker-boy's crotch at the same time. I missed, but this startled him enough to make him pull his head back, and the upswing put my foot at a perfect angle to drive down and out and take out HIS knee. I left him screaming on the pavement and ran for the administrative offices of the closest classroom building and called the campus police. They didn't find the guy, but I never saw him again, either. Some of my friends who had seen stalker-boy following me said they saw him with someone who looked very much like me but with a different hair color, and we figured I was his "type" and he felt I couldn't say no to him.

    I still don't trust strangers. I had a superficial conversation to pass the five minutes until the bus came and ended up with a stalker.


    And I'd like to see a mix. The funny ones are great, but the scary ones are just as valuable.

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  38. I am so glad Nicole is ok...stalker situations can go from mildly annoying to terrifying in a heartbeat!

    I had my stalker situation when I was younger. I was about 18 and had been dating this guy off and on for about 2 years. When I finally ended it with him I never thought he would react the way he did. He was a drug dealer (my only defense is that I was young and stupid and when I met him waaaay too sheltered.) and that was what eventually broke us up. For about 2 weeks after we broke up I heard nothing from him. Then one day I get a phone call from him and he asked me who the guys was I was sitting with on my front porch that day. When I asked him how he knew someone was visiting me he told me that he had eyes and ears everywhere and that he didn't want me talking to any other guys and he would find out if I did. Like I said before I was young, stupid, and way to sheltered...I blew him off and told him to go fuck himself. Then I started getting phone calls everyday...he would call me and give me a rundown of everthing I had done that day. I was totally freaked out...I didn't know what to do. I was constantly looking over my shoulder for him.....but, it wasn't him that I should have been looking for...eventually I figured out that he had his "friends" watching everything I did and they would report back to him what they saw. In the middle of all this my family and I were preparing to move across the country. We had been planning this for a while. I personally couldn't wait to get away! So, it's been about 6 months since we had broken up and I got my final call from this guy. He told me that he wasn't going to call me anymore...he told me to just remember that I belonged to him...and I could date whoever I wanted but if he wasn't the first guy I slept with (yes I was a virgin) whether I was dating someone else or not...he would kill me and the guy. I was so scared and at that point I finally told my parents what was going on. It was decided that I would spend that summer with my grandmother and wait for my family to follow. I was never so grateful to get on a plane in my life! Needless to say I took a long break from dating (5 years) and have since made much better choices in the guys I date...I am no longer attracted to the "bad boy" type and I know from experience that you should get the police involved the second you realize you have a stalker. Things turned out ok for me but, they could have gone terribly wrong just as easily.

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  39. Thanks for the input.

    Will keep it a mix.

    Usually if they are serious, it is hard to make a joke out of it.

    Otherwise, I can't contain my smartassness. (Word check, please.)

    As a guy, I've never had a stalker, thank God, but I know some guys who have had stalkers.

    I've known some bizarre women though. One summer some weird ass chick started liking me for god knows what reason.

    Somehow she got the phone number of the girl I was dating at the time, and she kept calling my girlfriend and telling her we were having an affair. ???. Which, of course, we weren't.

    I saw her at a party a month later and screamed at her, embarrassed the shit out of her, and naturally, my gf had some choice words for her as well.

    Never saw her or heard from her again thank god.

    Sometimes people ask me if I get online stalkers from writing WWHM and PLFM. Not now, but when I first started WWHM I had a strange woman emailing me obsessively about twice a day for two months on end, including naked pics. She wanted to plan a date we could meet, nevermind the fact I live in Seattle and she lives on the opposite side of the country.

    I realized she wasn't all there and stopped answering her emails. She finally stopped too, thankfully.

    Dudes do some scary shit as these comments suggest.

    The worst part is, the guys that do this stuff are, more often than not, just your average Joe's you'd see walking down the street. They are rarely the obese, bald perverts you see sitting in front of their computers all day.
    In fact, I KNOW guys like this. There is a LOT of them.

    Someone commented earlier that guys need to realize why women are so cautious around guys. This is why. Because it has happened to a lot of girls I know.

    I also know for a fact that over 50% of the chicks I regularly hang around with have either been raped or molested in their lives. In fact, I'd say well over 50%. And most never reported it.

    OK, Im done wasting time. Back to work.

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  40. I don't think Nicole fully appreciates what went wrong though she points out a big part of it (sharing compromising information to the wrong parties). It's a bad idea to excessively occupy some random, dating site member's time and attention with unrewarding text messages whining about your personal problems.

    Why? (1) Guys go to dating sites for basically one purpose: pussy. (2) Too many guys looking for pussy have low experience dating and will try just about anything to get pussy. (3) They perceive a magnified commitment/investment when you take up more time.

    So, if you spend hours talking to some guy strictly over text, he's probably not some masochist who gets off being your emotional sponge and knows how dating works. He's probably some inexperienced guy who thinks listening to you is getting him closer to pussy and will do whatever to get something out of this commitment.

    TL;DR If you need someone to listen, pay them (a psychiatrist), sleep with them (a lover), mutually like each other (a friend), or friendzone (an unfortunate, harmless colleague). No one else wants to listen and the internet is trouble.

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  41. I've never had a stalker but my sister's had a few creeps in her time. She has a really great guy now, which makes joking about the others a bit easier; it sure wasn't easy at the time!

    There was the guy she dated for quite a while, who on the outside was that sort of clean-cut, has-it-all-together type that mothers fall all over when girls bring them home. He was (still is, as far as I know) gainfully employed as an elementary school teacher, he was mannerly and respectful, and anybody looking them would have thought it was just the perfect relationship. However, this guy had a carefully-concealed case of EXTREME OCD, one that took up so much of his life that I think it will forever keep him from having a healthy adult relationship, though it may take his porr girlfriends a month or two to realise it. I was so proud of her when my sister worked up the self-respect to dump his ass, and moved on.

    At first she thought (nice/naive girl that she is) that they might be civil to one another after the breakup, but out of the blue one day, a few months after the breakup, she gets this NOVEL of a facebook message from him, detailing all sorts of things about her daily life that happened in the time they'd been split up-- just to let her know that he cared enough to keep an eye on her, I guess.

    That would be creepy enough, but honestly, the prize line in all of this was not his cool conviction that EVERY facebook status message had some secret meaning for him alone, or even his certainty that she was pining for the chance to see him again, but rather his offhand observation that sure, maybe he had treated her badly (out of respect for my sister's privacy I will not detail just how badly, or in what ways) but hey, at least he hadn't treated her as badly as OTHER guys did! So the gist of it was, she should be grateful she'd been mistrated so well! And maybe down the road it would be time for "them" again.

    She just freaked out, got sick to her stomach and everything, because it brought that whole relationship just screaming back to her. I helped her compose a "no uncertain terms" response and fortunately he's taken the hint (she referenced several people who would help drive the point home if necessary, myself included, so maybe that helped) but it took her almost as long to stop shuddering at the mention of that message as at the mention of the relationship itself.

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  42. I was just reading over my last comment and realized I didn't clarify that the reason this extreme OCD was so bad was that, in the case of my sister's ex, at least, it translated into an obsessive need to control every facet of my sister's existence. The length of her hair, the people she socialized with, the type of food she ate, the clothes she wore and the recreational activities they shared-- these are just a very few of the things that he must have spent HOURS obsessing over before he dictated them to her at great length.

    My sister, needless to say, was not in a very healthy place when she got involved with him, and I believe that's why she stayed with him for so long. It was a real turning point for her, when she finally got back enough of her self-respect to decide she was done with him.

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  43. It's shocking to me how many women have had an experience with a guy like this. It's just amazing to me why any guy thinks he can talk to a woman like that and get ANY response that ISN'T a restraining order!

    Trust me, guys, the second you use the C word, you're never going to SEE the live version of that body part again!

    I think the last anon is dead on...share with your girlfriends, that's what they are there for...not some internet stranger. No matter how convenient that may be.

    By the way guys, here's a good rule: ONLY send a woman a picture of your penis if she actually requests one. Otherwise it's pretty safe to say we don't want to see that!

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  44. I've had five stalkers, but none of them were from the internet. They were all nerdy guys with whom I attended school. It usually started if we met with mutual friends or had a class together, and I, being chatty and pretty friendly by nature, would just yapyapyap away at them in downtime. If any of them ever mentioned dating, I always politely yet forcefully declined; I wasn't interested in dating in high school in the slightest, you see. Soon after that, there would be strange messages on my parents' answering machine, sulky teenage boys in the backyard at night, taps on my window, little presents on my desk for my first class, bizarre encounters, and a few disturbing Valentine's Days. None of them ever got violent, but they never, ever seemed to take the hint. I was never frightened for my life, but I was very creeped out, especially by the tapping (and the V-days. WOW).

    I got rid of the creepy e-mails, but I did keep one very awkward, embarrassing, and slightly deranged love letter written on a piece of notebook paper and signed with a picture of a video game character. Maybe I'll submit it sometime; it'd be a nice break from the scary stuff, at any rate.

    Oh, but hey, I like the scary stuff, too, Weas. I think it's interesting reading and makes for some great education on internet safety. I say mix it up with scary AND funny.

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  45. @Fugs: How many of us women have EVER requested that dick pic? I bet that number is tiny.

    It's usually thrust upon us.

    Thank you, I'll be here all night. Be sure to tip your waiter.

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  46. serendipity said"he's still going around seducing underage girls. Fucking creep."

    uummm I believe that would be fucking pediphile!!


    Yes what is up with the dic pics??? I had a douchebag send me one of his...I was like really!?! What a loser!!! Both him and this dumbasstard Andrew.

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  47. I had someone send me not a dick pic, but a dick diagram one time.

    Like he had made technical diagrams of his penis -- length, width, from the top, side, front -- I was mystified. I was also about sixteen, and super-naive, so instead of blocking him immediately like I should have I was all like 'err, that's nice, wow, you really put some effort into those diagrams...'

    Thankfully nothing came of it but an uncomfortable several months of him growing more enamored with me and me being more and more bemused and puzzled.

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  48. Actually, I DO have a pretty good internet-related story that ends happily and largely painlessly. I post drawings on a popular art gallery website, and I'm very well-known there in some circles (I don't get so much traffic these days since my themes have largely departed from aforementioned circles' interests, but I'm glad for it). I began with my MSN and AIM posted up at the site, but took them down almost immediately because I was getting weird messages from REALLY weird people. After that, I had notes that I would only give out chat information upon request, and reserved the right to deny requests for it.

    Well, one fellow who had been commenting on my stuff for about two and a half years asked me if I wanted to chat on MSN, and I figured, sure, we shared some common interests, and in his request he said he wanted to talk about those. I was thinking along the lines of project collaboration or something; sort of professional.

    Well, no, he wasn't interested in stuff like that. He asked me to draw a lot of stuff for him (pregnancy fantasies involving popular cartoon characters, inflation fetishes, other sorts of things) that I declined; I had no interest in them, and I had a full course load as well as 30 hours of work a week to deal with. He would whine a little bit, but he usually let it go pretty quickly.

    He also had this odd habit of typing "actions" to me, about me. Like, *pats your back*, *hugs you* or other things. My other friends and I would always type our own actions to each other, but somehow I was really squicked out when this guy would do it; I think probably because he would always attribute them to things he was doing TO me, rather than just doing. Doesn't make a ton of sense, I know, and it's hard to explain, but I didn't like it, and I told him to stop. He did (for the most part, anyway).

    Then came the conversation where he sent me all these links to medieval torture devices and told me in exquisite detail what he wanted to do to me with them, including using heated iron claws to tear my breasts off and things like that. It seemed to come completely out of nowhere; we weren't close by any means, and I never, ever had intimate or personal conversations with him. After he said this stuff to me, I told him to never contact me again and promptly blocked him from my MSN account (which was tied to a dead e-mail account, so he couldn't harass me through that). He sent me a few notes begging my forgiveness (and one threatening about his fantasies again), but I told him to fuck off and contacted the site moderators, and I haven't heard from him for two and a half years now. It still weirds me out thinking about it, though.

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  49. The penis pictures always mystified me.
    I don't know how many times I would be talking to someone and they would just send one. Like I really wanted to see their shriveled misshapen penis. Like I sit around all day and think, you know what would brighten up my day? Pictures of cocks that have no chance in hell of getting within 100 miles of my hoo-hah.
    Sometimes, it makes me just want to find a cave to hide in and stay there...hah.

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  50. Beth said"Like I sit around all day and think, you know what would brighten up my day? Pictures of cocks that have no chance in hell of getting within 100 miles of my hoo-hah."

    LOL!! If I want to see that I just go to WWHM blog and can see all of that I want there, but with one exception I actually want to go there so I can read Weasel's burns on the dumbass that thought that would be a good idea to do that in the first place and get a few laughs out of the deal!!

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  51. i had a sort of stalker at one point. when i was 15 i met this guy who was about my age, and i was nice to him (thats just how i am). well he thought it meant that i wanted to talk to him every second of every day. he would IM me and ask me what my sex life was like, how big my boyfriend was and so on. needless to say, i got freaked out and stopped talking to him completely, even at school.
    a few weeks later i get a message on facebook saying how he really liked me and wished we were still friends and how he went to the hospital (for depression or something), had cried over me...all with the weird emoticons like T.T and O.O
    i wish i had saved the letter but i got freaked and deleted it...

    definitely keep the mix coming, it keeps it more real...psychotic letters are psychotic :D

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  52. Ugh these bring back so many memories for me because I was a really dumb kid. Especially when it came to the internet.

    However, the truly psycho ones are good because they are definitely ones to learn from. The humorous ones are awesome too so a mix is where my vote goes.

    As for stalkers for me there once was this guy about 6 or 7 years ago that I began seeing and hanging out with who unbeknown to me was stalking one of my good friends at the time. To me I just considered him a friend, I had a sense he was a little off but I'm nicer than the tough girl front I projected when I was that age.
    I'd talk to him for hours on the phone, or sit with him and his friends at lunch.

    While this is going on he has been emailing my friend incessantly, calling her and even showing up at places she is or driving around her place at weird hours

    He never lets up on her but I guess his focus got more on me because we went to movies, parks and comic shopping together. I never led him to believe I was interested in him more as a friend, in fact I was very insistent I was crushing hard on this guy I had met and I was also involved with another guy. At one point we had been to a park thing together and he had try to grab my hand which I shoved off. Later in the car I stressed to him I just was not interested in anything more than friends with him.
    This doesn't make things awkward he seems like he understands. I mean honestly you couldn't read that this guy was upset or anything.
    So we talk more on the phone make more plans to hang out. I was even going to help with a roleplay thing.
    I started feeling like we needed a bigger crowd with us though. So in one instance I actually suggested the friend he had been stalking to come out with us, of course he insisted on calling her and she didn't answer.
    I don't think anything of it, we spend the whole day together, walking talking, ending it with ice cream in his car. While sitting their he gets really serious all of the sudden and starts talking about he is a virgin and how he hasn't gotten far with a girl where I was the well known experienced girl at school. He mentioned how I was capable of separating sex from an actual relationship etc etc.

    (I really can't but at the time I lied my teeth off about my "experiences just to have stories to tell and seem tougher than I was. dumb, oh I know)

    ...His point: Lets be friends with benefits! At least let him see my boobs or something, you know nothing that causes any real harm. Maybe make out a little. We don't have to have sex be he really really wanted to.

    I handle it as best as I can being the girl stuck in the car with this guy miles from home and without a cellphone at the time most stores are closing. I tell him once again I'm really interested in the other guy and that if something were to happen with him I don't want "this" holding it back. I had to say too that I didn't want it to ruin our friendship (it had, honestly, because the whole choosing to ask in a car after I'd told him a couple of times nothing more was happen).

    He asks for a hug at least, and I hug him with enough room for "jesus and buddha" from my boobs. He drives me home in silence. I later cancel anymore plans we have, saying things have come up or I'm busy or sick.

    He goes back to stocking my friend really hardcore again to the point she comes to class really angry about seeing him outsider her house again and that is when I learn about the stalking. From then on out I told others about the car incident and the stalking not wanting other girls to have that happen to them. He hears about it and from here on out has given me the cold shoulder since, playing up that he's the victim to our other mutual friends. They know better but for the sake of peace and apathy just don't fight it.

    A couple of years ago I saw him again when I was volunteering. He had a whole gaggle of very young girls hanging off him and flirting with him. He's got the older sensitive guy thing going for him now that is catnip to jailbait. (unfortunately, I know that from first hand experience too.) From friends I've heard he still a real tool in how he handles the relationships. I just hope the girls walk away smarter.

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  53. Oi 3am here and massive spelling errors I apologize profusely for that. I honestly cannot write as well as Weasel or other responders. haha

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  54. @Beth

    You said "hoo-ha." That is my favorite slang for vagina EVER. You rock hardcore.

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  55. hellkell said...

    Everyone should go read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker if they haven't already. Good read about trusting your instincts--if something feels off with a person, it probably is.
    __________________________________________________________________

    Another good one is "her Wits About Her". Can't remember the author right now, but it is a good compilation of stories told by women who have been in some pretty bad situations, and how they got out of them.

    Weasel-
    Like the mix! Scary and funny, please.

    No real stalker stories, but I can say that I was raised to be too polite! People, teach your daughters how to say "NO!" and mean it! I've had some close calls because of my upbringing to *always* be polite and nice (which reinforced my then low self-esteem). And then my Dad wonders why I never stood up for myself...

    And as or the dick pics ~ please, no. Unless you are asked. It may move whatever score you had into the negatives - or out of the game!

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  56. Hey - Anon 2:22 - yeah, me too! My parents brought me up to always be polite and make conversation to the extent that I now find it almost impossible to walk away from a conversation, even if it's boring and I have somewhere I really need to be. This does *not* serve me well with guys - even after they've seen me do the exact same thing with guys they know I can barely stand, they seem to think that they're the special one! I am going to teach any daughters I have how to say "no" and how to get OUT of conversations, as well as how to get into them - it's all very well being the sweet, friendly one who will listen and talk to you and ask how your day was, but it can be a curse when you're being hit on by a guy twice your age and you have to get your friends to rescue you with some made-up excuse about having to be somewhere else...

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  57. ok, part of this is my own stupidity.
    I'm a metalhead, and I had met a guy on a messageboard who lived some 90 miles away. We met at a concert, talked, talked some more when we got hom, kept chatting and talkign on the phone and so on, went to a concert in London together, came back to my place and fucked like rabbits.

    We only saw each other on weekends because of the 90 miles between us, and that worked. But slowly, I started to reaize that... he was an alcoholic loser. He treated me liek a queen, but he still lived with mommy and daddy, spent most of his money on alcohol and was just intelligent enough to carry a conversation beyond talking about music.
    This went on for a bit, until my birthday. We had planned for me to go over to his place and we'd spend the week together.
    I get there, all isnice and fun and thenhe told me he didn't get me a birthday present because... hedidn't know what to get me, but we couldgo coose my present together.
    OK... This was prettyinconsiderate, but oh well.
    So we went through shops and it turns out that hehadn't planned to spend more than 10 poundsor maybe not even that since every time I was looking a smething he'd say that it wastoo expensive. Turns out he had gone to see some friends on the previous weekend ( when we hadn't met) and he spent all his money on booze.

    fast forward 1 month later, we went together to a festival in Germany. He was constantly drunk and bitching, fell asleep in all ditches and when i complained he told me that @our lifestyles didn't fit together @.
    So I dumped his ass in the last day.
    And he cried for 3 hours and followed me around like a puppy until I decided to give him one month to turn himself around, stop drinking and become an adult. Mind you that wasmostly because he was crying like a bitch.


    After this, we saw eachother only one more, when I went to his place... mostly to pick up whatI had left there. He didn't kee his promise to stop drinking and said that he'd dink if he felt like it, and we didnt see each other for 2 months, although we did talk online.

    He started to talk about moving in with me and how much he loved me, and was trying to find a way to ditch his sorry ass without a big scandal. He also kept sending me presents.

    Too little, too late,motherfucker. I didn't NEED your presents, I have my own money and make more than you ever will. A fucking 3 pound plusy would have bne enough for my brthday, just to show you cared.
    Moron.

    After Idumped him, he haked my ySpace account ad emailed all my male friends to ask whether I had broken up with him because of them.

    about a month later, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. he found out- we had the same friends andfrequented the same messageboards and what did he do?

    @I hope you die of cancer bitch just liek your stupid mother@
    That's what he posted on a fucking messageboard. My mother had passed away 10 months before.


    I'm cured now, and I'm in a god relaionship with a good gy. He still liveswith mommy and drinks until he pisses himself.

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  58. I'm just as fascinated by the 'psychotic' ones as I am by the amusing ones. And very often the 'psychotic' ones are kind of amusing, too, in a 'how could this idiot even THINK that this strategy would work to get her interested in him' (ex. getting 'dumped' from a 'relationship' that never was, then contacting the woman's parents to suggest she was suicidal....oh yeah, that's TRU WUB right there, kids!!!).

    So I say carry on, Weasel. It's your blog, post what you want.

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  59. @ me: Yikes! what a fucking twat. Glad to hear you're better and, honestly, glad to hear that hes still a pathetic looser! He deserves it.

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  60. I dated someone for a month, and when I realized they had emotional and alcohol problems I couldn't cope with or help them with, I said we should just be friends. Over the next THREE YEARS, this person called me drunk in the middle of the night on numerous occasions to tell me they were still in love with me. He sent emails full of purple prose about me. When I was preparing to move to another town (not because of him) I suggested we have dinner together, thinking it would bring some closure and he would never harass me later for daring to move without saying goodbye to him. Instead, he informed me in his car that we were not driving out for dinner, and he took me to a bar. he tried to make me take numerous shots. I drank only a couple of drinks and after a while was ready to go home. He then refused to drive me to my home, pretending he'd forgotten how to get there (despite the directions I was giving him.) He ended up driving me across a state line (I should mention he was quite drunk all the while) and intentionally swerving over into oncoming traffic and then moving back over at the last possible second before we all died. Finally he stopped at a gas station so I could use the bathroom, and I made a hysterical phone call to my parents at one in the morning to come pick me up. I had to ask the woman behind the counter where I was, as I had no idea.
    After my parents showed up, they refused to leave until he did so he wouldn't follow us home. However, less than half an hour we got home, he showed up outside our house, dead drunk, car in a ditch somewhere, no wallet or anything on him but the bottle of vodka he was holding and a letter for me talking about how I was his soulmate. He passed out and had to stay the night. When he woke up, he called his parents to pick him up. He pretended that he didn't remember anything about the night before.
    That was 3 years ago, and to this day I get emails (which I never respond to) from him saying that he is still in love with me.

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  61. Longtime reader, first-time commenter...

    I'm unpleasantly surprised that so many women got stalked when they were just teenagers. Thank goodness, I've never been stalked, but friends and acquaintances have...it's shockingly common.

    The funny letters are entertaining, but the scary ones, as has been said upthread, are educational - driving home the lesson that you really need to trust your instincts, not suppress them in the name of politeness!

    Digression! What WWHM and PLFM have impressed on me most, it's that 1) women are generally socialized to be polite and deferent and carry on conversations even if they'd rather not, to be "nice"; 2) men who are socially awkward, desperate, drunk, or downright psychotic often interpret everyday courtesy as romantic/sexual interest; 3) sadly, there's a lot of guys who are both misogynist and heterosexual... and that produces a kind of perfect storm.

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  62. @ Anons 2:22 and 3:43: Not only do we need to teach young women how to get out of conversations, young men need to be taught that they are entitled to exactly jack shit in interactions with women.

    Too nice + overblown sense of entitlement = PLFM.

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  63. I had/have a stalker. We met when I was 16 or 17 at youth group. He was much older, around 23 at the time, and it was well known that he had a creepy crush on me. I was warned not to get in a car or go anywhere alone with him. It was uncomfortable, but there were no major incidents. I gradually stopped going to youth group, and quit the church thing altogether.

    It was then that the emails and phone calls started. "Hey, haven't seen you in awhile, what's up?" I'd make excuses about being busy, real life stuff, blah blah blah. He eventually took the hint and stopped. Or so I thought.

    A year later, I was home visiting my parents from college, and I got a phone call. Odd, I didn't live there anymore, and everyone who knew me knew not to call for me there. "Hey, I was just cleaning out my desk and found your phone number and thought I'd check up on you. I thought maybe we could get some coffee or something, and catch up." Maybe it was a coincidence that he just happened to call on the one occasion that I was in town. Or maybe not. I made excuses; only in town for a couple of days, want to spend time with family, maybe next time. It was then that I started to feel genuinely uncomfortable. I hadn't seen or spoken to this guy in over a year, and we had never been close in the first place, just casual acquaintances who occasionally said hello to one another. And yet he was still obsessing about me.

    Another year rolled by, and I got another email wanting to catch up. I didn't respond. Next year, another email. This one said: "I'm not religious anymore, if that's what's stopping you." Somehow he'd found out I was an atheist. Ookay, digging up personal information about me, creepiness level upped.

    I haven't heard from him in over a year now, but that hasn't meant much so far, so we'll see. I really hope not. Maintaining a crush on someone you hardly knew five years ago, calling at their parent's house and digging up their email and personal information about their life? Yeeeesh!

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  64. Anons 2.22 and 3.43: I'm too nice as well! THe sad thing is, I have lines planned out on what to say to creepy guys and then I just end up meekly going along in conversation with them. Thankfully, that's all it is, conversation, but I KNOW if anything ever tries to happen, I WILL fight back. But words just make me seem too nice and a pushover.

    I don't have any creepy stalker stories, but I can swear that I have an old-guy magnet somewhere, "old" as in anywhere from 50 and up. It's frustrating to try and treat all people the same, be nice to everyone but then have them come back and annoy me more. There's this one old guy who always walks his dog past my workplace and has to stop in and talk to me whenever he does (we allow dogs in the store, so she comes with him). The safest place I have, besides the back room and the supply room, is behind the counter, so I glom myself back there until either he leaves or another customer comes in and then I completely ignore him until he says "Well I see you're busy, we'll just continue on our walk." It's not like he's doing anything to warrant being asked to leave, but at the same time he's just being a general creep.

    What's even worse is that I live next to an old-persons apartment complex that also includes some low-income/handicapped people. One of the men there kept knocking on my door asking me if I would sit on his porch with him and listen to NPR. Uh, like that's the most socially appropriate thing for a woman in her mid-20s who lives by herself to be doing.

    And just in case any of the old geezers DO try anything, I have a cheap and legal equivalent to brass knuckles next to my door for security purposes. I can be nice, but I also have nothing against sending someone to the hospital for good reason.

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  65. Anon.
    I agree with you about the socialization. Women are trained to shut up and put up with it. The minute you express yourself you are a bitch or humorless. We often fight ourselves when it comes to affirming our rights.

    Guys are trained whine, natter, pout, and stomp around like babies. If they don't get what they want they act like babies. They believe that everything they do and say is pure genius.

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  66. bhm said... "Guys are trained whine, natter, pout, and stomp around like babies."

    Actually, they're not. They just do what they want and ignore training at some point. Girls should do the same. And EVERYONE acts like babies. That's humanity.

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  67. Nope, parents tend to fixate on the boys more and give them more lenience. Boys temper tantrums are given more tolerance. The females in the family are usually viewed as a waste of resources and time. They are expected to contribute and not take up emotional time. Thing have changed over the decades but not that much.

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  68. @anons 2:22 and 3:43 - hell yeah, I wish I were better at saying "no." (I know that I get this from my mother.) My Achilles heel seems to be guys who want to know out of the blue, "hey, do you find me attractive? would you ever date and/or sleep with me if such-and-such specific life situation criteria were met?" I always seem to default to "um, theoretically, if I weren't completely in lust with your very best friend, I guess?" as I figure the odds are like 500-1 of ever reaching that bridge, versus even money for an immediate meltdown if I just say "no" right away and wind up having to explain that I simply never want to see them nude.

    Then a few months later the guy starts going "IT IS TIME! WHY WON'T YOU TAKE MY CLOTHES OFF, YOU DECEPTIVE HARLOT???" Or I date someone else and it's "BETRAYAL!!!!"

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  69. me said... etc...@our lifestyles didn't fit together @...etc

    That sounds like a bad relationship and not stalking. He acts all dependent on you and even tells some truth. The b-day gift thing is not a big deal, and some parts come across petty and judgmental. It's fine you were not satisfied and found something better...

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  70. bhm said... Nope, parents tend to fixate on the boys more and give them more lenience.[...]

    Great over-reaching generalization. Maybe this holds in your family or friends. I've seen parents be harsh on boys: no crying, act manly, be athletic and competitive, no playing with girl things, get highest marks (the satisfactory ones aren't good enough), etc.

    Consider going lesbian. Then you might reconsider...

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  71. Anon.,
    A generalization but not over reaching. Gender roles are prevent in families and you should consider read material on it.

    Yes, males are subjected to gender roles too but that doesn't negate my point.

    Consider going lesbian. then you might reconsider.. (how do you know that I'm not a lesbian?)

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  72. Viatecio,
    If you change your feelings towards the imposition rather than planning what to say it usually works better. Practice thinking I don't want you in my space and being irritated about it. Once you can honestly feel irritated about a imposition the words usually take care of themselves.

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  73. Weasel:

    You are a good guy. Good guys are more seldom as one may think. That you actually bring all these things to light to the public that women have been dealing with for eternity, and I know you had no clue that is what would happen when you started this, is such a very very very good thing. You have no idea. What you are touching on, and giving forum to, is just amazing. I never thought in my lifetime women would have such a forum. And, I must say, thanks to a man. Congratulations. And, from the bottom of my heart. Many people here will not actually see the depth of what is happening, I hope as a writer you do.

    Take it, and RUN with it. Write a book eventually about your experiences here on this blog and the other, and what you learned abotu women, what you learned about empathy and humor. It will be a gold mine and also make the world aware.

    I salute you.

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  74. Another point, who gives a fuck if someone goes lesbian or not based on a bad experience with men? I have a best friend who chose to do so, do I look at her differently, no. Anyone who does is mental.

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  75. Mind you, I have had a shitload of bad experiences with men. Did that make me go lesbian, no. Still, if someone else choses that route, who am I to judge. And, whether it was genetically preprogrammed or not, doesn't matter. It happened, she's happy, who cares? The outcome whether it is genetic or not, or whatever, is totally uninteresting even for researchers. What do they discover? In the end, someone who goes lesbian goes lesbian. You cannot change the fact, and the source has no influence about it anymore. What a waste of time to even contemplate it.

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  76. bhm - Good way of looking at it. It's not like I can exactly rehearse for a final performance, too...just have to roll with what comes along. Thanks for the idea.

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  77. To those who think going lesbian will spare them stalking and heartache: you're wrong. My worst stalker was a woman.
    -A girl who knows better

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  78. I've just been wondering over the last few weeks of reading this blog if there's something endemic to the male psyche which makes this sort of behavior much more common in them than in women.

    Like how a lot of men are sort of borderline autistic. They get obsessed, consumed by their passions to the point where they just can't see anything else. To the point of near-madness, really.

    Now if your passions include winning gold medals at the Olympics or painting the Sistine Chapel, or finding cures for cancer, all well and good, but if they involve some chick who you spoke to online for a little while, not so much?

    Thoughts?

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  79. Anonymous said... driving home the lesson that you really need to trust your instincts, not suppress them in the name of politeness!

    This is a false dilemma I keep seeing: instinct or politeness. You should NEVER deny yourself. However, there are other alternatives and these 2 are hardly good. You are not constrained to follow instincts or be polite. Instincts err and constantly seeking approval will get you burned. While instincts help inform your actions and you can observe politeness, you should always do what's best for yourself and use your reason and better judgment.

    You'll win a lot more chess games on strategy and reason than instinct.

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  80. casualencountersblog,
    There's a number of factor at play.

    Testosterone makes men more violent and emotionally more explosive. When badly socialized these traits are encouraged.

    Men have a harder time letting go of a relationship than women. I do not know why.

    Much of pornography has an abuse or rape component to it. This sexualizes violence.

    Many men relate to women the way that they relate to small nerdy male. They bully, push, a view a difference as a 'dis'. They relate this way because they see women a small and weak.

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  81. @casualencountersblog: Yes, I think there is something endemic to the male psyche in regards to this behavior.

    I'm not sure if it's not being able to handle rejection. Or if it's a sense of entitlement that curdles when it doesn't get its way.

    I'm not saying that women don't stalk or display obsessive behavior. But look at the news lately, and a lot of guys are shooting shit up--primarily because they lost something--be it a job or a woman. I don't think men are used to dealing with loss in the same way women are. We are conditioned to expect a hell of a lot less in a lot of ways. Not so with men, who are pretty much told the world is their oyster from the get-go.

    I think we need to redefine what it means to "be a man" in this society, because it's not working out for a lot of dudes.

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  82. I think we need to redefine what it means to "be a man" in this society, because it's not working out for a lot of dudes.
    ------

    Very true. Gender roles can be damaging.

    I think that males don't get the emphasis placed on self-control when they are growing up. Females get their asses booted if their rooms are not spotless, their clothes and hair not perfect, their manners not perfect, and their reputation not perfect. Females learn very early to do thing for themselves and are expected to pitch in and work. By the time a male leaves home they have no idea how to care for them selves or their home and expect the world to be concerned with them and what they want. They are use to everything being done for them.

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  83. Please do take into consideration the name of the site we're on and the type of men we're talking about before the continuation of the character assassination of the entire male population. ( How's that for a run-on sentence? )
    Not all of us are emotionally retarded asshats. Not all of us think with our hormones. Some of us know the meaning of respect.
    The best advice I can give anyone is to always trust your gut, never second guess yourself and let the chips fall where they may.

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  84. I have looked at the comments of people who unfortunately have had stories like Nicole's. We need to be aware that personal information is not too hard to get. In fact, it can be scaringly easy. Public records are sold by intellegence gathering like places on the internet for average fees where the more you pay, the more info you can get. Even with Myspace and Facebook pages plus a google search for free can give psychotic stalkers enough information to piece together.

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  85. Sparkywonderlizard,
    We are speaking in general term and know that not all men are like that.

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  86. After reading aaaaall those comments, I have my own horror story to tell. (I'm sorry if my english is bad!)
    This happened 10 years ago, when I was 16. I met a guy who was older than me, but most of my friends were (and are) a few years older, so I didn't find it weird when we started seeing each other a lot and eventually dating. Now, when I think about it, I find it really creepy, but then... I guess I thought I was really mature for my age or something (I really wasn't! lol)... He was a 28, rich, still living with his parents but intelligent and kind of charming.
    Anyway, so we dated for about a month, but I realized I didn't really liked him, so one day we met for coffee and I politely told him that I'm not longer interested in him as a boyfriend, but we still can be friends, etc.
    This all happens while we are walking in The Busiest Street in my city, but that doesn't stop him to start crying, getting down on the floor and holding my leg (yeah), while begging me to give him another chance. While dozens of people stare at us. Some cars even stopped to watch us. I felt so bad that I told him I would give him another chance. Then, the next day I decided to try again... this time on the phone. He cried, he screamed, he begged... But a couple hours later, he got tired and hung up, and I thought that was that.
    So, I know his actions were... childish, a bit pathetic, but not stalkerish. Here comes the stalker stuff...
    For a year, he called me at least 20 times a day. He called me at home, at my highschool (he said things like he was my dad and so I would leave my class thinking something important had happened... and it was just him, begging again)... I had to talk to the principal and tell him everything. I changed my phone number 5 TIMES that year, but somehow he got the new numbers. He would call my friends and tell them the weirdest lies (but they knew he was a crazy stalker), talk to my mum, masturbated in front of my house then send me the pictures of it, tell the friends we had in common that he would kill himself if they didn't help him get me back...
    He would show up everywhere. At the movies when I was with some friends. At a concert. At a funeral, once. Some times he would just be there, but other times he shouted how much he loved me, or how many times he would masturbate a day listening to a tape of me singing bjork (I find this really funny now).
    I didn't know what to do. Some people thought I was crazy and imagining things because he was so nice, he was older, and cultured, and rich...
    Some times I would pick up the phone and just leave it in another room, while he talked for HOURS. Other times I tried to talk to him, I tried to reason, but, yeah, of course it didn't work!
    He was convinced that we were Meant To Be, and that I was too young to see it!! He even sent a ring once, and asked me to marry him, saying that I was the best thing to ever happen to him... all this when he had been stalking me for almost a year, when I had told him that I didn't care if he killed himself, that I didn't want to see him again EVER.
    For those of you who wonder why I didn't call the police... I did, lots of times the first few months. But they "couldn't" do anything, because he wasn't agressive. They could talk to him, and that's it. I guess nowadays it wouldn't be like this, but back then that's what they told me.
    Then, one day, he stopped calling. All of the shudden. A couple years later, some guy who knew him told me that he just found another girl to obsess over. I felt really bad because I was relieved... while someone else had to deal with him.

    Now... I want to say something we all already know: men are not usually like this. Most of my friends are male and they are great. And my best friend had a girl stalking him for a while too. It's a shame, because I've had a couple other problems with guys, and sometimes I have to remind myself that I can't hate men, or be scared of them just because of this. But it's true that I'm usually not very nice to strangers because I don't want them to think that they can get close to me.

    And I'll end the longest comment ever saying that I love this blog, and the comments too!

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  87. Anon from 7:40 I agree with you.

    I was actually shocked today to find how many teenagers even on facebook and myspace have all their information out to the public.

    Some even with an open invite for anyone to text them with their number right there in bold.

    It honestly scares me.

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  88. I've had a few stalkers but the one that always sticks out in my mind is the guy that showed up at my highschool and tried to get me into his car and leave
    I met him through myspace. I was about 15 (though I looked like a 12 yr old boy at the time since I was a gymnast) and he looked around 26 or so. He sent me a message telling me I looked really interesting and he would love to get to know me better, and since I thought it was awesome that an older guy was interested in me (and I was obviously young and stupid at the time) I added him and chatted with him a bit.
    We had exchanged a few messages and it all seemed normal but then he started telling me how hot I was and how he wanted to meet me in person and have me come over to his place, and how he wanted to take me to a baseball game (idk where that came from since I hate baseball) and how when he saw my picture he knew “he had to have me”. He started asking where I lived and what my number was and when I got out of school. I realized at this point that this was super creepy behavior and stopped talking to him and hoped he would move on to someone else.
    I guess I forgot that I had put what highschool I went to on my profile, one day after swim practice I was waiting outside for my ride and this guy walks up to me (def did not look like his pics) and was like “Hey xxxx, its me xxx (I don’t remember his name) I came to pick you up lets go” and grabbed my arm. I freaked and said I had no clue who he was and I wasn’t going anywhere and went back into the pool area and he tried to follow me inside ,thankfully my coach had stayed. She asked me who this guy was (she didn’t like strange people in the pool area) I told her I had no idea and she told him of for me and said if she ever saw him on school property again she would call the police.
    He just glared at me and called me a stupid cunt and left and never contacted me again. It had to be the scariest thing to ever happen to me.

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  89. hmm there were supposed to be spaces in that, sorry for the wall of text

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  90. While I wouldn't have freaked out over a dick picture by a guy I met at a dating site (Isn't it sort of par for par in those types on environments?) Andy does sound like a real creep. Also, 'I didn't mean to hurt you' always makes the person look worse in my mind. Oh, I see, you were just too much of an impulsive, self indulgent child not to let your dick go wherever you want. Oh ok. I guess it's fine then.

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  91. Wait, where is Luis to tell us that Andy is only a misunderstood, lovestruck guy, and that Nicole was WAY overreacting to his little love notes and his harmless, cute wanker picture?

    C'mon Luis, where is your 5,000 word diatribe about how we're all a bunch of humorless, suspicious, bitchy cunts?

    I've had a stalker. It's creepy and scary to the max. I dated the guy for several years, and he was somewhat of a control freak, as well as an alcoholic.

    When my self-preservation instincts finally kicked in, I dumped him and moved to another state.

    He knew where I worked, and would come by and see if I was there. Then he'd call me, begging me to take him back.

    It got so bad, I finally had to find another job.

    He threatened my horse's life, and I had "mysterious" tire problems with my vehicle.

    I moved one more time, and he finally gave up or just couldn't find me. This was in the early days of the 'net, and I'm fairly careful about what information I give out. Don't have Facebook or MySpace, and my e-mail addy is a yahoo freebie.

    He never hurt me physically but was mentally abusive.

    I don't understand how anyone can threaten the life of something I love, and then wonder why that doesn't make me all warm and fuzzy for them.

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  92. This site is awesome and really really terrifying.

    I am the proud new father of a little girl and reading the comments has put the fear of the gods into me. How am I going to protect my little girl from all of this?

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  93. Daddy Anonymous, you protect when she's young, teach her well, and then pray like hell when she becomes an adult.

    Women get hurt and killed by crazy, abusive men all the time.

    Teach your daughter that it's okay to be a bitch to someone she doesn't know, and mistrust isn't "bad" or "not nice". It may very well save her life in the future.

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  94. Weasel you just topped all others with that one. = ) I'm sympathetically nervous just reading that.

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  95. Mack Truck,
    I thought that Luis would have chimed in with 5,000 words of poorly constructed writing by now. I know a "your over reacting" is looming somewhere in cyberland.

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  96. Anon,
    It would be good to teach her how to recognize an abusive relationship. Also, how to prevent attacks and how protect herself online.

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  97. I think that a lot of men, quite normal, everyday men, are so desperate to see some reciprocal feelings in the object of their affections that they genuinely see them there, and when proved wrong they are genuinely hurt and angry. It's the only explanation; like everyone here I've seen so many examples of it.

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  98. to the Anonymous Dad - you teach your daughter to be strong and alert, to constantly find ways to build her self-esteem and confidence. my father always told me that i should be able to handle myself financially and emotionally, that i don't need to rely on a boyfriend for anything. of course, i had some up and down relationships where the guys i dated became clingy and codependent on me. and, yes, it took me time to get rid of them and realize enough is enough, but they never came back. a handful of drunk texts, but nothing worse. all you can do is guide her to being her own person.

    the previous post about Mr. Toyota Toyota was sent in because i told her to. part because it was funny and i've never met a person more bat-shit insane than him (i mean, when the met, he had an 8" scare on his face from a bobcat attack), but also because these guys are out there. not all of them, Sparky.

    but that are some real crazies that do obsess and mope and pine away because they can't deal with being a lesser man. they know that you are a good person and that you will find someone a million times better than them. but they can't handle it. they will try everything to keep you as a bird in a cage. but the mere thought of you smiling at another male sends them into a tailspin and they can't correct themselves. they lash out and resort to childish name-calling and threats.

    but these guys are not men. they are childish boys who don't know how to accept life's challenges.

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  99. Bhm, I seriously think Luis believes he's dazzling us with his brilliance, when all he's doing is baffling us with his bullshit.

    I refuse to read his histrionic diatribes anymore. I wish Weasel would put an "ignore" feature on his blog the way some BBs have.

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  100. @Mack Truck, bhm, Mack Truck: Here it is, bitches! Now stop asking for it. Some of us are trying to sock puppet over here.

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  101. Damn Luis, less than a bazillion words!

    I am totally impressed, or maybe just shocked that you CAN post something short and sweet.

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  102. @Mack Truck: Feel assured it's not less. They're here.

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  103. I think you are very right hellkell.

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  104. Mack Truck said...

    Damn Luis, less than a bazillion words!

    I am totally impressed, or maybe just shocked that you CAN post something short and sweet.
    ---------------

    I'm totally be-dazzled!!! Good work, Luis.

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  105. The following are articles and papers on the causes of male violence and stalking.

    ttp://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012220

    http://www.offourbacks.org/malepat.htm

    http://www.enotes.com/violence-article/male-violence-against-women-has-variety-causes

    http://www.socyberty.com/Issues/A-Ripple-Effect.299067

    http://www.pandys.org/stalking.html

    https://swww2.le.ac.uk/ebulletin/features/2000-2009/2007/07/nparticle.2007-07-06.6331931093

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  106. Luis, I'm impressed. Ctrl+bloviate must be disabled today.

    @bhm: That's some interesting reading you supplied. Depressing as hell, but thank you.

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  107. hellkell said...

    Luis, I'm impressed. Ctrl+bloviate must be disabled today.
    --------
    LOL!!!!

    I'm glad you found the articles interesting. I always believe that you should know what to look for in behavior ahead of time.

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  108. Just found your blog and loving it!

    For awhile now I've been sharing psychotic letters I receive from women with a friend of mine. I'm like a "crazy chick" magnet and it's not flattering – and this applies to both online and offline. This has been a problem for me for awhile and I would go into more detail, but I rather not because my stalker may read this.

    Seriously, I have enough crazy girl stories to fill a book!

    I always thought that girls seem to turn the crazy up a notch, more so than men, but this post may have me rethinking that.

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  109. Diamond, Weasel is an equal opportunity "psychotic letters" printer. It's not just limited to men.

    If you have crazy ass girl stalkers, we'd be more than happy to hear about them.

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  110. DiamondKT-

    You are pretty dead on in the assumption women kick the crazy up a notch. Or SIX!

    Hubby had a stalker-ex when we first got together. I knew her from previous to him and seperate as well.

    She would drive by his apartment, the boarding facility, frequent the bar across the street from the boarding facility, throw small rocks at the back door of the apartment, set rocks on the step...

    She went as far as following ME on the freeway one day. I would look over at her and her new 'male farm implement' and laugh at them, every time she got next to me.

    She was always trying to be inconspicuous (sp?) about it, but I would spot her, call her name out loud and wave.

    The fact that she changed the spelling of her last name similar to 'cemetary' because she liked the way it looked... yeah, what more of a warning can you give someone that you are fucking nuts.

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  111. DIAMONDKT,
    Yes, women tend to be more passive-aggressive about stalking. They'll throw a rock threw your window or let the air out of your tires. Male stalking tends to be more violent such as physical confrontation or shootings.

    Feel free to send your letters to Weasel. I don't think he intends for his blog to be purely men's letters.

    ReplyDelete
  112. bhm (APRIL 5, 2009 2:10 PM): If by negate you mean discount your claim that men aren't "trained" to behave well, then it does. Society doesn't fit the "norm" you claim. Girls are considered a waste maybe in CHINA or INDIA, but not USA, Canada, or Europe.

    It's fine to be a lesbian, and I'd LOVE to be one. The lesbians I know, however, often half-jokingly complain 'bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks' and act fazed by the frequent lunacy and misbehavior they see in the female populace. They aren't so naive as to claim such unauthoritatively skewed assertions as knowledge or indulge them. People who date any sex know it's all bullshit. Any sex is prone to misbehave just as badly: humanity.

    Society follows a norm, only not the one you describe.

    About these last 2 comments: I see a disagreement.

    ReplyDelete
  113. bhm said: Yes, women tend to be more passive-aggressive about stalking. They'll throw a rock threw your window or let the air out of your tires. Male stalking tends to be more violent such as physical confrontation or shootings.
    ------

    I agree and disagree. Men are indeed more violent but women take it to a level that is so unnecessary. Attacking the professional life just as much as the private. Where men tend to give up women seem to keep going and try to twist the law on their side. This unfortunately has been my latest experiences.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Lane, are these personal experiences taken to an "unnecessary" level? Just wondering.

    @Anon: what norm does society follow in your opinion? Girls may not be thought of as a waste here, but we ARE socialized differently and have different expectations put upon us.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Anonymous said...
    If by negate you mean discount your claim that men aren't "trained" to behave well, then it does. Society doesn't fit the "norm" you claim. Girls are considered a waste maybe in CHINA or INDIA, but not USA, Canada, or Europe.
    ---------
    I don't know what you mean by "Society doesn't fit the "norm" you claim."

    There's plenty of research to back up gender differences in child rearing. I truly hope that there have been changes made in recent years.




    Anonymous said...
    Any sex is prone to misbehave just as badly: humanity.
    ________________
    Very true. It's how they misbehave that is the difference and also how society reacts to the behavior differs.



    Anonymous said...
    Society follows a norm, only not the one you describe. About these last 2 comments: I see a disagreement.
    --------------------
    I don't know what you mean by the above statement, but it's ok to disagree.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Two words to explain crazy women-

    Tom Leykis.


    Leykis 101.
    The more batshit crazy a woman is, the lower her self esteem- the better she is in bed. If she thinks "If I don't, someone else will", then it becomes a no holds barred situation and anything goes. She will be wilder and less inhibited.

    Getting rid of her afterwards? Good luck. She will be all over you like flies on shit.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Where men tend to give up women seem to keep going and try to twist the law on their side. This unfortunately has been my latest experiences.
    -----------------
    Sorry about your bad experience as, I'm sure you know, it can cause serious problems in your life. I don't know if their is any research to support or deny a gender difference in stalker tenacity. At least, I haven't come across any.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Concerned ProsecutorApril 7, 2009 at 2:07 PM

    Ok, so I have to say, I've enjoyed reading this blog very much. It is entertaining and educational but I have a few comments-

    First, I don't appreciate the all of the sweeping generalizations about men. I think its pretty unfair to make these characterizations and stereotyping, which is inappropriate. You complain about Luis stereotyping you on here, and yet many people have no qualms about saying virtually the exact same thing about men in general when in reality, this is a small subset of the population.

    Second, in response to Anon Dad and many others on here- I think one of the most important things to teach all children is that when they get that feeling that something isn't right (and teach them trigger words, like people asking where they live on the internet or things like that) to discontinue the conversation immediately, and notify an authority figure- whether its a parent or depending on the significance of the issue- the police.

    Nearly every stalking comment on this page has been a male in his 20s, to a young person in their early to mid teens. These people have a problem to begin with, and need to be dealt with quickly before they abuse other young people. Please, call the police when you learn about these people.
    For other helpful tips dealing with these online predators, check out Perverted Justice- http://www.pjfi.org/

    ReplyDelete
  119. Concerned Prosecutor,
    Yep, we know we're talking about a sub-set. We've stated this a few times.

    Great information and pointers. This is information that everyone can benefit from.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Concerned Prosecutor, we know. We are truly not unaware of the fact that this is not the norm of male behavior we're talking about here.

    Why does some guy (yeah, I'm assuming) always come along and point this out? WE GET IT.

    When we get some crazy women stalker stories up here, we'll be all over those with our generalizations and general humorless bitchiness.

    ReplyDelete
  121. @Cut-N-Jump: The crazy ones are good in bed regardless of gender.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Geez, I'm posting another article again. But, this one is about the subject of male-violence and the generalization accusation.

    http://www.offourbacks.org/malepat.htm

    ReplyDelete
  123. @bhm: That is exactly what I was getting at. There is always someone who brings up the generalization argument and/or doesn't appreciate it. Well, tough. Fact is, most of this violence IS perpetrated by men. It may well be a teeny-tiny subset, but those few bad apples are stinking up the joint for the the non-violent men, who we know are out there.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Men are inherently evil and the cancer that is destroying this Earth. FACE IT, FAGGOTS.

    ReplyDelete
  125. @casualencounters: Thank you for making me laugh like a crazy lady at work.

    ReplyDelete
  126. @casualencounters
    Men are evil??? You almost made me spit out a mouthful of coffee...now who's evil?

    @concernedprosecutor
    Yeah, I know...I got my panties in a bind a couple of days ago.

    That said, of all of my friends over the years, none of the guys were ever beat up or raped by a so-called gf. Can't say vice-versa.

    ReplyDelete
  127. I'm 19, soon to be 20. My stalker, Josh, has been stalking me since I was 16 years old, and he was 25. He was a friend of a friend, never once hung out with him one on one, and then one day I hear from my friend that Josh is telling everyone we are dating. I correct this notion and think nothing of it again.

    Until he shows up on a date with my boyfriend, and breaks my arm.

    Restraining orders are filed, police called, but Josh's daddy is a big shot lawyer, and he always manages to slip through.

    Fast forward to last year, when Josh is now actively hacking my facebook/AIM/emails, etc, and that of my boyfriend, AND his ex girlfriend, AND his best friend. During his conversations with my boyfriend, it's revealed that Josh stole college acceptance letters and other mail from "unsuitable" universities in an effort to keep me from going too far away. "To protect" me, because I don't "know what's best." Not only that, he bought an entire house in the city I ended up going to college in. I moved in with my boyfriend's parents for a short time for personal reasons, in the middle of nowhere, JOSH shows up in the backyard.

    He is finally sentenced and put away. I move back home. He magically is out on parole that week, shows up pantless in my front yard with a Japanese kitchen knife.

    I've been thinking of submitting one of his letters here. He writes me weekly.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Good Gods, Rachel. I hope this guy is back in jail and that you are well. Releasing stalkers is an ongoing problem. When they escalate to the level that your stalker has they do not understand "no" and the consequences or they don't care. He needs to be incarcerated as a dangerous offender.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Rachel, I hope you're OK. Concerned Prosecutor, this story kind of blows a hole in your "tell a parent or police" advice. What should Rachel do now?

    I hope he's writing you from the nearest looney in.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Rachel,
    I think taking legal action is part of it. Perhaps there's a group that deals with stalkers and/or male violence against women that can help you legally to keep Josh in jail and stop the letters. You deserve to have the freedom to live life. Best wishes.

    ReplyDelete
  131. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  132. @Weasel I like a mix of funny and truly psychotic. It wouldn't be of substance to ONLY have funny and wouldn't be entertaining if it was only truly psychotic. In short, I might stop reading if you were to become predictable. I would like more truly psychotic, though. You don't seem to have as much.

    ReplyDelete
  133. hellkell (APRIL 7, 2009 1:49 PM) said...
    Indeed. No one denies difference. Cultural differences are well known: clothes, accessories, games, activities, bathrooms, occupation, knowledge, etc. I reject strictness, because I RARELY see parents discriminate lenience by sex (in my years growing up, extended family, friends, associates). That's considered outlandish and highly frowned upon. It's about entirely based on age and personality if anything.

    Until proof comes out (eg, an authoritative, well-designed, unbiased study), it's hard to say what the norm is. Studies not designed to control observer bias (field study, personal observation) or (non)response bias (polls) are unsatisfactory. As far as I know, no reliable proof exists.

    Someone will have to refer to such reliable proof to convince me the experience of several people (and mine) is exceptional and girls are in fact raised more strictly than guys.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Anonymous,
    Gender issues and childhood development is a highly researched area. There's literally libraries full of material for you to read if you wish. If you familiarize yourself with the subject you find that it's not a biased, subjective area.

    ReplyDelete
  135. bhm,
    Then refer to 1 RELIABLE study that supports your conclusion. You introduced the idea and presumably based it on something. If so many WELL-DESIGNED studies exist, pointing 1 out should be easy and effectively make your point. Not presenting proof is ineffective.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anon.,
    Here's a two article as an introduction to the subject of gender and childhood development. It's a large field of study and to say it doesn't exist is like saying the field of Geology doesn't exist. As far as evidence, as I said earlier go to any university library and you will numerous shelves of information. The onus is on you to prove that decades of research and every Ph.D. in the field in wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  137. OOpps on the articles.

    http://www.riverwoodcenter.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=12772&cn=462

    www.open2.net/healtheducation/family_childdevelopment/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  138. bhm said...It's a large field of study and to say it doesn't exist is like saying the field of Geology doesn't exist.

    Which no one was saying. I'm aware of anthropology and the social sciences. I was saying I know of no sound studies (in regard to statistical design and bias control) that support your assertion parents normally raise/train boys less strictly or with less discipline than girls in our society.

    Since you've (presumably) seen proof and not I, it's only sensible you recall that proof and refer to it here. I'm not asking you to recreate a study; simply refer to it.

    The links you present don't address your assertion, are not studies, and don't refer to any. But I recognize your effort. It's good.

    ReplyDelete
  139. @Anon: I get the feeling you're being deliberately obtuse. You're simply rejecting what bhm said on the basis of your limited observation.

    ReplyDelete
  140. For the deliberately obtuse:
    http://news.ufl.edu/2007/06/13/sex-roles/

    ReplyDelete
  141. Deliberately obtuse? But that panda melon when done but should even though anger fun for sausage birthday rolling under?

    ReplyDelete
  142. bhm, thanks for the link to http://www.offourbacks.org/malepat.htm and your other links. I've saved that particular one as I know it will come in handy.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Snarf! For a minute there I thought I was dyslexic.
    I think I need more coffee.

    I also can't figure out why guys even bother arguing with women. He must be single. Just suck it up and admit you're wrong. Life will be so much easier if you do.
    ***The immediate above was for Mr. Obtuse***

    ReplyDelete
  144. And any study to which you refer he'll (for specious reasons) likely decide has bias because it doesn't agree with his (limited) experience.
    Anecdotally - and go on, dude, take issue with it because I'm not unbiased and double-blind and controlling and etc. - virtually every female I've known and grown up with was raised more strictly than males. In fact, in a couple of instances, the parents admitted it afterward.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Anonymous (APRIL 8, 2009 5:11 PM),
    Your anecdotes. Hence, why we need a good study. Do you have unlimited experience?

    Sparkywonderlizard,
    Sexist of you to assume anonymous is male. I do not respect men who give up too easily and give in to whatever I say just because I'm female.

    hellkell, bhm,
    Insulting an inquiry is a good way to diminish confidence. You have a chance to spread knowledge and promote a feminist idea with proof. Offending someone considering your idea because they will not ignorantly accept it does it a disservice.

    bhm,
    Slightly closer. That's a news article ABOUT a study. It doesn't cite the study's lookup information. This (http://www.springerlink.com/content/1135415207k15832/) is a study publication (found with Google). Problem: it doesn't relate to your assertion parents normally raise/train boys less strictly or with less discipline than girls in our society. It's about attitudes and beliefs toward sex. Why did you post this?

    Incidentally, it has some design flaws: it's a (1) questionnaire (response bias) surveying (2) college students, (3) attending UFl, (4) taking an introductory psychology course (unrepresentative sample). This weakens the study's generality. A good study controls bias.

    You don't need to find something new. Simply recall the research that first gave you the idea and refer to it here. If it's dated, I can lookup follow up studies that cite it.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Just hit Control+Obtuse. It's easier than typing all those words out.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Your respect isn't needed or wanted.

    You like to argue for arguments sake. You like beating dead horses.
    I did consider that you might be female and I find it ironic that you call me sexist.

    ReplyDelete
  148. I had a brief encounter with a stalker in high school. The kid was a dork no one would talk to and I soon found out why. He hung closer to me than my underwear. I still shrugged it off as him not knowing what to do with someone being nice to him.

    Long story short he was also my paper boy. One day after school I hit the shower and just as I'm getting out I hear an angry knock. I wouldn't normally answer the door in a towel but it sounded important. He said he had been knocking for 20 minutes. He knew I was home because he saw me go in and didn't see me leave. He said he needed the money for the paper. I told him my folks weren't home (jeeze, alarms go off now screaming DON'T SAY THAT) but he really needed the money then because he needed to send it off to his boss or something.

    So I go to the bathroom to dress and grab some cash. I swear the next part could've come right out of a movie. As I head to the bathroom the phone rings. It was one of his dorky friends. He told me to watch out for the boy, saying the boy had swore he would "consumate his love with me today". The friends apparently laughed it off at the time but in the off chance something might happen he didn't want that on his conscience. As I'm hearing this I hear breathing behind me.

    You know, I don't know what he had planned but it couldn't have been good if he followed me in the bathroom. I channeled my inner bad ass and gave him a beat down. I was bare naked at the end of it but I doubt he saw anything with two swollen eyes.

    The truly horrible part of all of that is that I didn't tell my parents, being embarassed about it. I had to spill it though when the cops showed up investigating why I lured the boy into my house with the intent to beat him unconscious. The cops said they wouldn't charge me if I didn't try to press charges against him and flat out said I was asking for trouble answering the door in a towel. No one would believe I wasn't looking for sex and it was better to just drop it.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Other Anonymous isn't being obtuse. That news article isn't supporting or even studying what you're saying it does. Nobody's saying that gender differences/stereotypes/what have you don't exist, it's just that you're not providing concrete evidence that supports your specific claim about parenting differences with boys and girls.

    ReplyDelete
  150. there once was this chick a few years ago that I was hanging out with while I pretended to stalk her friend. she was totally into me, and thinking I liked her friend more made her totally horny.. she would always call my and sit by me at lunch...

    that is when her friend told me she was totally into me, so I would drive over to her house at weird hours and to be honest I totally tapped that shit

    SO while all this is going on this other chick starts telling me how much she wants me so we hang out, ya know go to the park, and she would keep telling me how much she wanted me, then tell me how experienced she was with these other guys.
    so I just tell her "whatever"
    So she kept calling me and wanted to try some kinky "roleplaying" to spice things up more
    So then she started telling me how she wants to involved more people to make it more extreme, so she calls her friend up, but she doesnt answer so we go out and have some fun.
    so we sit down on this bench right? and she starts talking about sex and I tell her "im capable of treating you like the whore you are without getting attatched" and she gets bitchy and starts calling me all these mean names and telling me how she is too good for me anyway, so her and her friend came up with some bullshit story about how I stalked them... lolz

    ReplyDelete
  151. @Lolz: Isn't it past your bedtime?

    @Anon 8:14: So you preemptively beat this guy up? I really hope you're not looking for an "atta girl" here, because that is just as wrong as stalking.

    ReplyDelete
  152. @Anonymous(APRIL 8, 2009 8:14 PM): Guy was trespassing and followed you into bathroom. Self-defense is your right. Well done!

    Police are worthless.

    @hellkell: *shakes head* SON, I AM DISAPPOINT.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Anon.,
    Let me explain very clear and slowing so that you will get it. The articles are an introduction to gender in different fields. They discuss how gender behavior is created in early childhood through societal restrictions and expectations. The last article discusses how societal restrictions and expectations create female sexual behavior. I don't know how much more clear I can be.

    Secondly, the impact of society in the development of gender is accepted in Psychology, Gender Studies, Women's Studies, Early Childhood Development, The Study of Human Sexuality...GO TO A LIBRARY!

    ReplyDelete
  154. Anon,
    I can't believe the police! Assholes!!

    ReplyDelete
  155. Hellkell- very disappoint indeed

    ReplyDelete
  156. Be disappointed. Something about that story redlined my bullshit-o-meter. Your mileage may vary.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Yeah, my bs-meter went off as well.

    We need better quality anons here, ie if you're going to fib at least make it believable. Also only a knuckle-dragging, uni-browed moron says stuff like "SON, I AM DISAPPOINT". And people wonder why I'm often embarrassed to be male.

    ReplyDelete
  158. bhm,
    You well know that is not the subject: you're digressing. Any reader can see.

    You introduced and maintain the idea parents are stricter on girls and claim proof. You can refer to that proof (which you can find more easily than I, since you know where to look or can recall it) or you can admit you have no definite proof and end this charade.

    ReplyDelete
  159. OK Anon.,
    Do you believe that there are gender differences?

    ReplyDelete
  160. bhm,
    Does anyone not? I question relevance. This better not be a digression. Please continue.

    ReplyDelete
  161. What do you think the causes of gender differences are?

    ReplyDelete
  162. @Anon: Get off your dead ass and Google these studies if it's so important to you. You're now just being contrary for shits and grins as well as obtuse. Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Hellkell-
    @Anon 8:14: So you preemptively beat this guy up? I really hope you're not looking for an "atta girl" here, because that is just as wrong as stalking.
    ________________


    Did you miss the last line here?


    So I go to the bathroom to dress and grab some cash. I swear the next part could've come right out of a movie. As I head to the bathroom the phone rings. It was one of his dorky friends. He told me to watch out for the boy, saying the boy had swore he would "consumate his love with me today". The friends apparently laughed it off at the time but in the off chance something might happen he didn't want that on his conscience. As I'm hearing this I hear breathing behind me.


    Sounds like he followed her into the house (trespassing on private property) and considering the 'angry' knocking on the door, for 20 minutes as he stated...

    He got the ass kicking he deserved. Way to go Anon! Sounds like some here would be less than sympathetic had anything more happened to you.

    ReplyDelete
  164. @Cut-N-Jump: I didn't miss it. Like I said, this story feels off. It just has that Letters to Penthouse vibe: detailed but made the hell up.

    At the risk of being really unpopular, this (if it happened) could have been avoided by not answering the door until dressed with cash in hand.

    ReplyDelete
  165. hellkell,
    I suppose you think any insistence on evidence is contrary?

    bhm,
    Society and sex.

    ReplyDelete
  166. 5:11 Anon here:
    Obtuse anon @ 7:15 (because that is who and what you are),
    Get thee away from your online "life" and to a library on your own if need be. Put all of the burden on the other person because they brought the point up first, and so they must give all of the support, and all you have to do is lazily refute it by claiming it's not on point? Look up anything on your own from your POV or just blow snarky, specious smoke out of your ass? What you've chosen is obvious - the lazy way out.
    I do professional research every day, and because I work for people who bill more in a day than you probably bring home in a month - in other words, they do a job well and are commensurately compensated - I recognize the signs of active intellect and well-crafted argument. You evince *neither.*
    As for my personal experience, even if I had "unlimited experience" you'd probably claim that my view was biased for some other reason, because your point appears not to be making coherent and well-reasoned arguments, your point is to (try to) show everyone they're wrong.
    Feh, vent your insecurities elsewhere - because that is really what you're doing. Sorry your dick/tits/salary/car/brain/house/life/etc. is so small, but I fail to give a shit.

    ReplyDelete
  167. hellkell said...

    @Anon: Get off your dead ass and Google these studies if it's so important to you. You're now just being contrary for shits and grins as well as obtuse. Jesus.
    ---------------
    Anon's a manipulative little shit. I suspect that this person is very young and impressed with hearing her/himself talk. Unfortunately, Anon. doesn't realize that no one else is impressed. First year Psychology and it has no comprehension of restrictive behavior in the formation of gender. Not a promising beginning.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Hey Annoying Anon,
    Male or female, you qualify rather well for this blog because you're showing "who the real bitch is", as it's you, sweetheart. You didn't know your monitor screen doubled as a mirror, did you? Deny all you want, it won't change the fact that you're a sterling example of "internet hard guy" douchebaggery. If this were an in-person discussion group, you wouldn't last five minutes and there'd be a mess on your chair.

    ReplyDelete
  169. LOL!!! Can we have a marking system for all the Anons over here? It gets ridiculously confusing after a while. XD

    (Another Anon.)

    ReplyDelete
  170. All the anons should register with Google and pick a username.

    I think Obtuse Anonymous is Luis. He/she/it sounds just like Luis, especially with all the blathering, pyscho-pop crap.

    If it's not Luis, then we have TWO posters like that here. Yow!

    ReplyDelete
  171. Anonymous 7:50 PM,
    A bit of writing and self-aggrandizement for not "giving a shit". You don't know who you're talking to.

    Anonymous 8:01 PM,
    More insults and whining. Unpersuasive.

    bhm,
    Please call a patient and open request for definite proof 'manipulative' while you claim proof but act doggedly averse to reveal it, and all these comments insult a mere effort at honest disclosure and defend your reluctance to be that honest.

    Any of you could conclusively prove me wrong if this reliable proof were so easy to find. That none of you do, but all of you resort to meaningless insults suggest you can't but will play a dishonest game.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Well Luis did mention something about a sock puppet, so that could be what's happening.

    I agree about the Google registration.
    But, as I recall, one of the regular's from WWHM said her Google sign on wasn't working anymore and that she would only post as anon now.
    Although it's quite clear who the asshat anon's are and who aren't. Luis et al are not terribly clever or bright.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Ah, Luis posted before me.

    Oh GOD/DESS like one, please excuse us for breathing. But, quite frankly, it isn't us who need to prove anything. You however have proved an awful lot and are a poor loser.

    ReplyDelete
  174. @Annoying anon/Sock of Luis: What would be definite proof to you? There's lies, damn lies, and statictics, after all.

    ReplyDelete
  175. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_n5-6_v32/ai_17274720/

    ReplyDelete
  176. You're right. Anonymous could be Luis. I could be Luis. You could be Luis. Anyone could be Luis. Is Luis above assuming an alias and insulting Luis to gain favor? Who knows? Oh, the mad speculation!

    ReplyDelete
  177. you need to update this more frequently.

    ReplyDelete
  178. I don't know but, Anon. has mastered Luis' double think/talk game. Perhaps Luis has mentally possessed some unwitting Pysh. student. I can't be bother playing.

    ReplyDelete
  179. hellkell,
    Thank you for the interesting articles.

    To be really off topic, is anyone interested in helping me with my conformation analysis of my Shire. I need to plan his work out routine.
    trooperandsarah.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  180. Anon/Luis doppelSock: "You don't know who you're talking to."
    If you're so damned important/intelligent/impressive/whatever, then tell us who you are, with proof. You continue to engage in this whilst whining that all the proof is due to the people taking the position contra yours. Proof/prove yourself, baby.

    ReplyDelete
  181. hellkell,
    I actually like this paper (http://www.springerlink.com/content/w826270l67844ml8/?p=42bfe265fdfa4438bfac59a956600478). The authors come from my alma mater. Although the sample is restricted (parents in 1 midwestern city with a 3rd or 4th grade child in public school), they do a good job of controlling response bias by verifying each parent's marital roles responses against at least 1 independent report (child's or spouse's). However, it does not support claims parents are normally stricter on girls. It primarily presents a test they designed and analyzes its construct validity (in statistical analyses against other tests, theoretical predictions). It provides demographic data: who has more stereotypical thinking, who's daughters feel more in control and have independent coping skills.

    Only part of a paragraph bears closest relation to the claim:
    "A number of theoretical papers have suggested that parents' gender-stereotyped behavior and attitudes function to diminish daughters' sense of personal control, independence, and achievement behavior (Eccles &: Hoffman, 1984; Hoffman, 1972). This effect is thought to occur through girls' observations of the interactions between their parents, through the way they are treated, and through the views they hear their parents express. It has rarely been demonstrated empirically, but a notable exception is a study by Brooks-Gunn (1985) which found that mothers who held more gender-based stereotypes about toddlers engaged in less active toy play with their daughters, and their daughters scored lower on cognitive indices tapped by the Bayley Scale of Infant Intelligence and the Stanford Binet at 24 and 36 months of age."
    See where I added emphasis. Where not suggested theoretically but actually observed (in a rare study), the stereotype-valued mother is not actively playing with her child. And who knows whether this accounts for factors like class where the mother may have less leisure to really play with her child?

    tl;dr Great study. Doesn't support the claim.

    ReplyDelete
  182. We're all wrong and you're right. Feel better now?

    Fuck off.

    ReplyDelete
  183. hellkell,
    If a study proved you wrong, then you'd be wrong. And I don't have that study. You may be right. Your study simply doesn't say it. Don't take it personally.

    ReplyDelete
  184. This is a blog and almost everything in the comments will be biased, anecdotal, empirical. Should you not like that, I suggest you hie your annoying ass back to class and back every breath up with a study or a statistic. The rest of are here for other reasons.

    Someone earlier called you a little shit. I'll double down on that.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Anon said :
    Blah blah blah blah blah I like 2 jump in puddles and play with my toes blah blah blah blah blah my real name is Nub blah blah blah blah blah I bend over for goats blah blah blah blah blah.

    ReplyDelete
  186. @ hellkell, to broken-record anon:
    "Fuck off."
    &
    "Someone earlier called you a little shit. I'll double down on that."
    &
    Correct spelling and usage of "hie"

    I've had a crap day, but you just made it.
    Bisou!

    ReplyDelete
  187. hellkell,
    Speak for yourself. If you don't like others pointing out someone has a weak basis to claim something true when they assume unwarranted arrogance, then you can get annoyed and do the same.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Oh dear, someone is not only a little shit but a very disturbed little shit. Anon writes like someone in a manic high who hasn't been to sleep in days.

    Studies! I don't have to show you any stinking studies!

    ReplyDelete
  189. *posts a Do Not Feed the Troll sign*

    'nuff said. Not worth the time.

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  190. I come here to read funny/psychotic letters from men. And also funny/psychotic stories related to the topic of a post from other people. Not people arguing about gender roles (I think, I was skimming to find actual funny/psychotic stalker stories) Aren't there message boards specifically for arguing somewhere on these interwebs?!?

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  191. The name on your blog caught my attention...Like many others luckily for me, I haven't been stalked like that...but I have had some experiences with the middle-aged, online dating thing....wow... Kindred spirit here stopping by to say hi and no, you are not alone!! Happy Easter!!

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  192. I am so happied to be an old married biotch....

    I was taught to be "NICE".....and also to swing an iron skillet to kill....more women today need that skill.

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  193. QoA:
    "I was taught to be "NICE".....and also to swing an iron skillet to kill....more women today need that skill."
    Sounds like a balanced set of skills to me!
    Lo

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  194. Everyone knows that you can't kill people with iron skillets. the best you can hope for is to make them do a weird cross-eyed-knock-kneed thing and fall down unconscious for a few minutes. Just long enough for you to get away, if you're fortunate.

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