Monday, August 31, 2009

Thou Shalt Not Snoop

Caitlin was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household and admits upfront to PLFM that she had very little experience dealing with men until her college years.

Of course, we're not saying Caitlin was completely unfamiliar with boys; Caitlin actually dated a guy named Larry for a while, but Larry also had a fundamentalist Christian background, and refused to hug Caitlin because he felt it was "too physical" and "would cause sin" in the eyes of God. So, in retrospect, I guess we are saying she was completely unfamiliar with boys.

Unfortunately for Larry, the overworked and underpaid estrogen glands in Caitlin's ovaries began to threaten a body-wide mutiny unless they started getting some serious non-Christian action. Larry and Caitlin amicably went about their separate ways, leaving Caitlin free to venture out into the world and whore it up in the hugging department.

Team Estrogen 1, Jesus 0.

After her breakup with Larry, Caitlin got together with another fundamentalist Christian man named Daniel, who was a family friend and fellow university student. Daniel was charming and handsome, and more than willing to provide Caitlin with hugs and more. Caitlin and Daniel became an item soon after Caitlin's arrival at school, and from there we begin our brief and ugly journey into Caitlin's first real relationship with a man, followed immediately by her first attempt at seeking a form of government protection against him.

In the beginning, Caitlin and Daniel's relationship was all kittens and rainbows. Daniel was kind and gentle, and he had one of those playful, ham-hock type asses that most women might generously applaud had he suddenly decided to scurry up a nearby tree. Daniel always went out of his way to make Caitlin happy, and Caitlin enjoyed his affectionate manner.

But that all changed when Caitlin had some difficulty setting up some of her computer accounts with the university, and Daniel, a computer science major, generously offered to step in and help Caitlin establish her new IM and email accounts. Caitlin appreciated Daniel's generosity, and took a back seat as Daniel spent a few hours fiddling around on her computer. Gosh, what a nice guy!*

*unless you keep reading

What Caitlin didn't know was that Daniel also conveniently decided to install a port that automatically transferred the entire content of Caitlin's instant messaging conversations to his own personal computer. Daniel began monitoring who she was talking to, and what she was talking about.

Caitlin didn't discover Daniel's antics until about a month later, when Caitlin logged into a private online diary she kept on a computer in her home. Daniel had made a crucial error in hiding his tracks; namely, after hacking into her computer, he decided to leave his own commentary in her personal diary. After reading through Caitlin's private thoughts, Daniel left his own entry and berated her for not sharing her feelings with him. Daniel concluded his entry with the following statement:

"I know I've really complicated things by reading this and for that I am sorry... If I don't hear from you, I'll take it as a sign things are over."

Caitlin was mortified her jackass of a boyfriend had hacked into her computer and read her personal diary. Before she could even absorb what had just transpired, Caitlin stepped out into the hallway and found Daniel waiting for her, twiddling his thumbs and whistling innocently while looking up at the sky. We'll let Caitlin describe what happened next:

"I was still so dazed I didn't know how to react and he somehow managed to get me to stay. I really don't remember how. But he was good at pitching emotional fits to get me to react to him and pay attention. Plus, forgiveness is always good, right? A fundamentalist background doesn't prepare one for dating in ways other than making a hug into some sort of sexual sin.

That said, I REALLY should have known better."


PLFM will now allow our readers a few moments for low-pitched groans and light eye-rolling.

Done?

It's OK Caitlin, we understand. You had to learn the hard way. A lot of us do.

Caitlin and Daniel resumed their relationship and dated throughout the rest of the semester. At the conclusion of the semester, Caitlin began a summer research internship in another state. Over the course of her internship, Caitlin made a remarkable transformation in her life: She began to question the principles and beliefs of fundamentalist Christians. She'd expressed her reservations about religion to Daniel before, but now, away from the cacophony of religious zealots in her immediate environment, Caitlin was free to examine her own thoughts about her religious upbringing.

Caitlin ultimately decided it was all a bunch of nonsense. Secure and confident in her decision, Caitlin completed a full and immediate transition to "atheist," and called Daniel to deliver the news.

Daniel exploded when he heard Caitlin no longer believed in God, and reached deep into his arsenal of emotionally manipulative tricks to change Caitlin's mind. First, he tried his screaming and ranting routine, which failed miserably. Defeated, he moved on to Phase II, the "crying hysterically" routine, which Caitlin had already seen one too many times from Daniel. Phase III was the ever-popular "silent treatment with arms crossed" move perfected by resilient 6 year-olds the world over, and when that ultimately failed, Daniel moved on to Phase IV.

Daniel unequivocally terminated their relationship because Caitlin had denounced God.

Daniel said he never wanted to hear from Caitlin again, and immediately blocked her from instant messaging him. But of course that didn't mean Caitlin would never hear from Daniel again, because he continually called and messaged her, crying and weeping, and generally coating Caitlin's keyboard and phone receiver with a thick, viscous solution of spittle, phlegm and random Bible verses.

So we got that folks?

Daniel dumped Caitlin.

Got it? Let's say it as a group:

Daniel DUMPED CAITLIN.

Now, Caitlin was a little bit upset her relationship had ended, but really it was more like the way you might feel when your two-year contract with Sprint Mobile ends. Although she was having a great time away from Daniel, he kept haranguing her to re-connect their internet messaging program to talk "as friends." Caitlin finally relented and agreed to re-connect with him, as long as they remained friends ONLY.

Daniel then sent the following email after he broke up with her:

Caitlin,

This is the easiest way to re-add you. Just reply with something.

I'm sorry about tonight. My feelings for you have changed and I don't know how to relate to you anymore, especially when I come away frustrated every time we talk even though I don't know what I wanted in the first place. I just don't know anything anymore and I can't trust anything I thought I once knew. Things have been pushed back to the beginning and I don't know if I want to even try to build them back up, but of course I don't know why. I know I must not be making any sense at all.

I'm also wondering what you think. You said that you see me as a friend and I'm not quite sure how to take that. In one way, I'm almost hurt you were able to release your feelings that easily, if you ever had them at all. I can guess at this point you'll be pretty annoyed that I don't believe you, but I don't see how I can believe you. I did trust you, but I can't anymore, not after what happened. You shattered my trust at a very very deep level. I just don't know what to think.

Now you're most likely looking over this with unemotional eyes picking holes in the things I say and you'll give me back something akin to a red marked paper with a bad grade at the end and a note to do better next time. You seem to be jumping to conclusions with the things I say a lot more lately.

Confused,

Daniel.

Yeah, Caitlin, you big trust-shatterer. Illegally recording someone's personal conversations and hacking into their computer to read their personal thoughts is one thing, but expressing your true feelings to a loved one? What a fucking travesty! Shame on you!

Caitlin immediately began to regret allowing Daniel to instant message her again. Over the next few weeks, Daniel sent Caitlin numerous missives regarding her internship. His favorite topics included:

1. How can Caitlin no longer believe in God?

2. Was Caitlin fucking those reckless, drunk college kids that didn't believe in God?

3. Most importantly, was Caitlin enjoying fucking all the guys she was working with, or just fucking some of them?

4. When fucking them, in what style was she fucking them, how often was she fucking them, and what were her personal feelings regarding her free-for-all fuck-a-thon of an internship?

As Caitlin's internship came to a close, Daniel knew Caitlin would return to school, so eased up on his questioning in anticipation of her return.

Upon her return, Daniel went right back into boyfriend mode. Although he had dumped her, he constantly questioned all her relationships with her male co-workers, complained endlessly that she wasn't spending enough time with him, and repeatedly accused her of getting pregnant during her internship. "That guy even got jealous of my homework," says Caitlin. She quickly tired of his endless harassment, and began to avoid him at all costs.

A week or so after Caitlin returned from her internship, Caitlin's sister was scheduled to be baptized in a local river, and Daniel was invited to the ceremony in order to take photographs for the family. He also attended the reception afterwards, where Daniel became insanely jealous of Larry, Caitlin's "no hug" ex-boyfriend who had the nerve to strike up a conversation with Caitlin.

Then suddenly, Daniel disappeared.

A few hours later, Daniel re-appeared and asked Caitlin if she wanted to come with him to a party where everyone planned on playing a game called "sardines." "It's like hide-and-seek in the dark," he said, "and at the end, everyone's squished together in one place!" Needless to say, at this point Caitlin preferred to cuddle with actual sardines. She refused his offer.

Later that evening, Caitlin's phone rang. She recognized the number as Daniel's, but no name came up on her cellphone screen. As it turns out, when Daniel had gone missing at the party, he had actually gone inside and found Caitlin's cellphone and deleted the entirety of her call logs and some of her stored cellphone numbers.

Furious, Caitlin didn't answer her phone, so Daniel proceeded to call her obsessively on both Caitlin's cellphone and her home phone. Caitlin's exasperated mother finally answered and told him he was no longer welcome in their home, nor was he to attempt to contact Caitlin again.

Of course, Daniel then immediately sent Caitlin an email, to which Caitlin responded:

I am not talking to you, it is not negotiable.

Daniel responded to Caitlin's email with yet another email:

Caitlin,

I'm really distressed and confused right now so I hope this makes sense. I'm going to assume this has something to do with me deleting myself from your phone. I was using XXXXXX's phone when I called your house and had a really bad connection. I couldn't hear your mother hardly at all so I hung up and went looking for another phone. When I tried again no one answered.

You really can't take a joke can you. I've done things to my friends phones before like, delete myself, change their banner, background image or things like that. I intended it to be taken like you goof now add it back. You seem to have taken it completely wrong, like I did it maliciously. If I had been malicious wouldn't I have deleted XXXXXX's, or XXXXX's or XXXXXX's number instead of my own?

I will admit I was a little bit annoyed with you. You seemed to be spending quite a bit of time with Larry and just barely saying anytime to me. Now there were a lot of explanations for this so I wasn't going to jump to conclusions and was going to bring up the issue later.

Seriously, that is what I was going to do. I was also going to ask you what you thought about your sister getting baptized, but I was going to leave all those questions for a later time. My hope was that you were happy for your sister and that it could be a happy day for you seeing people and celebrating your sister's baptism. I seem to have unknowingly destroyed that.

As I said before I was a little annoyed with you when I left. That's why I ignored you at first. Then I realized I wasn't thinking of you again and came back. As far as your "I'm tired" for not wanted to come that evening. I believed you, you did look tired.

Daniel

Once again, Caitlin did not respond, yet was forced to later in the day when Daniel arrived at her place of employment to discuss why Caitlin was not responding to his emails or phone calls.

Caitlin again thoroughly explained why she was through with Daniel's habitual boundary and privacy violations, and was concerned because Daniel was obviously having issues with continued contact despite her repeated requests to stay away. She walked right past him and left, once again instructing him not to contact her anymore.

Undeterred, Daniel sent Caitlin another email that evening apologizing for his behavior, followed by yet another email the following evening.

Caitlin,

You looked horrible today. Like something was really bothering you. Now I'm not going to even attempt to figure out what that is, but I did want you to know that no matter what happens I still care for you and always have even if it doesn't always seem that way. I'll be praying for you.

Daniel

Says Caitlin:

"I was not bothered at all that day until this email showed up, I was having a great day, fun classes, hanging out with normal friends, beautiful day out etc......."

The next day, Daniel decided to corner Caitlin on campus after one of her classes. Caitlin told him to leave her the fuck alone and tried to hurry away, but Daniel relentlessly followed her and Caitlin's classmate all the way to her next class. When they arrived, Daniel pulled out a CD and threw it on Caitlin's desk. "Here's your baptism pictures."

Another email followed:

Caitlin,

I still wonder if you know how cruel you're being? Are you not aware that your actions are cruel or do you know and still keep doing them? The Caitlin I know wouldn't do something intentionally cruel.

It still doesn't make sense that you went from smiling to the coldest I've seen. That isn't you. What happened? You're not one for quick decisions, but from my view you did this time. Now you must have yourself in quite a mess. To go back you would have to admit to yourself and everyone involved that you were wrong in your actions. The you I know would have at least told me what was going on and then told me what you were going to do about it. Instead you completely severed everything with no explanation, why?

And in case you were wondering, it does hurt. I'm not sure if that brings you joy to see me hurting, but it's the truth. To see someone that I dearly care for treat me like this it does hurt, but the truth is I still do care even though you are treating me the way you are.

Daniel

Again Caitlin didn't respond, so this time Daniel barreled into one of Caitlin's classes to harass her about not taking his calls or answering his emails. Caitlin repeatedly asked Daniel to leave the room, but he refused. She physically tried to push him out the door, but he still refused to leave. Finally, a classmate came to Caitlin's aid and instructed Daniel that he was to leave the grounds immediately.

Daniel refused to leave until Caitlin returned the CD of baptism pictures he had given her, so Caitlin happily returned his CD as Daniel was escorted out of the room. "I really didn't want to put the CD on my computer anyway," says Caitlin, "for fear of viruses or other Trojan stuff he could have put on it."

Caitlin then received her final email before the school finally took action against Daniel.

Caitlin,

This is so ridiculous as to almost be funny. You stop communications with me and never tell me why and when I attempt to ask I get something like I'm not talking to you and leave me alone. This has got to be the worst way to handle a situation I've ever seen. Seriously I have no idea what this accomplishes other than people getting hurt. What am I supposed to do? Figure out what I did out of thin air? I always thought of you as a logical person, but where's the logic in this?

Daniel

After several weeks, Caitlin had finally had enough. She prepared a large folder of Daniel's emails and took them to university officials and explained the entire situation to them. His constant harassment, his continuous and baseless accusations of her sleeping around even though they were no longer together, his insane jealousy and his inability to cease contacting her despite her repeated requests.

The university called Daniel in, and informed him he was to have absolutely no further contact with Caitlin.

And to this day, Caitlin hasn't heard a peep out of Daniel.

But, of course, we'll let her finish him off.......

"For the next 8 months every time he saw me on campus sidewalk he'd give me a Nazi salute and say "Heil Hitler!" He did it loud enough for me to hear, so if he was a ways away it would be yelled. Once when I was reading outside with a good view of several sidewalks I noticed that he went out of his way to go past me so he could give me the salute from closer. Oh well. The rest of the student body must have thought he was a Neo-Nazi or something."

Smooth, Daniel.

Very smooth.

110 comments:

  1. Geez what an idiot...

    I'm glad for Caitlin though that she still seems to have a good relationship with her family. Needless to say, a family member switching or dropping religion can be pretty painful for both sides.

    As a Christian who grew up in a religious minority in an Asian country, I think conservative American families should let their kids get more fresh air because if you ever only hear one side of the debate, atheists making sense when you get to college comes as a huge shock to the system.

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  2. Wow, I wish I could be surprised with what people come up with to torture others with, but I'm not any more.

    To Caitlin, I'm glad you recognized the idiot for what he was. Insular up bringings don't prepare you for what can happen. And if you can't recognize whats happening it can be really bad.

    I'm glad your psycho showed his stripes before you did something stupid like I did and married the guy.

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  3. Bravo for Caitlin for being both resilient and resourceful. Sure she wasn't prepared, but she was a fast learn and dealt with the psycho as swiftly as someone brought up in an environment of trust and, some might say naivite, could.

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  4. Damn, Daniel was all sorts of creepy. Like other people have said, it's good that she was able to figure out that Daniel wasn't all there and to figure out how to deal with him. I'm glad that her family, university, and at least that one classmate were helpful. I've heard plenty of stories like this where those around the person being stalked/harassed were less than helpful.

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  5. This also makes me kinda (okay, really) glad that my upbringing wasn't so sheltered from the outside world and had the opportunity to learn (not first-, or even secondhand, thank god!) that people could be obsessive nutters. But then again, I suppose that's what you get when you watch Law and Order with your parents in middle school and read about true crime and crap.

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  6. Wow.... just wow. What a crazy person. Well I am glad that college helped Caitlan to see the real world, and find out who she is.

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  7. I'm glad Caitlin saw through this idiot as quickly as she did. The sad and scary thing about Christian fundamentalism is that it doesn't merely fail to prepare young people for dating, in many instances, it actually presents male stalker behavior as appropriate and desirable. The end result is a bunch of young men who genuinely believe that real men treat women as if they were overgrown children who need to be shown where their best interests lie, and young women who think this sort of behavior demonstrates caring.

    Imagine, ladies, choosing to date and then marry a man who introduces himself to you by walking up to you and telling you that God has told him that you will marry him. And telling the story of your relationship as if it were the best thing to ever happen in your poor, confused adult life. That's what fundamentalism can do for you--alternately, it destroys your faith if, like Caitlin, you discover that faith that depends upon absolute, literal belief in religion as not only spiritual truth but also historic and scientific truth is a faith that will collapse on contact with the world outside of the religious community's carefully tended bubble.

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  8. She says she just sees him as a friend and he doesn't know how to take it? Um, how about at face value, idiot? Oye vey, what a piece of work! I'm a Christian and the biggest pieces of work I've made the mistake of wanting to date have been 'Christian' (term used VERY loosely in some cases). The majority of Christian men I know are genuinely decent guys who don't give Christ a bad name, but the minority...*shuddertwitch*

    When I was 19 I had to deal with a guy (not a Christian) with serious boundary issues. He wasn't computer savvy or I (and others) probably would've had issues along the lines of what Caitlin had with Daniel. I had only slightly more experience with guys than Caitlin when I went away to college so Mr. Boundaries-what-are-those was a real learning experience. He did know what 'I want to be friends' meant, though he seemed to attach the caveat 'but I'll be worn down eventually if you make sure I always know you want it to be more'. *deep sigh* He was also twelve years older than me, which was a whole other area of O_o.

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  9. Aggravated AtheistAugust 31, 2009 at 8:51 AM

    I'm a little amazed at the flippant comments directed towards Christianity. Or, more accurately, the ignorance.

    There is a vast difference between fundamentalism and fanaticalism. Unfortunately, the fact that this is not often recognized does harm to a great many people, both Christian and otherwise.

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  10. Well, if the women you feature on this blog are indicative of what to expect in the future I'll await an "Update from Caitlin" entry soon. She'll feel sorry for the lad and agree to a secluded weekend in the woods, camping and the like. After he rapes her and gets her pregnant she'll ponder man's inhumanity to man and promise NEXT time to exercise better judgement. The police have said for her to give up ever getting her car back and to consider herself lucky she found her way to a main road after only 3 days of sleeping on the open forest floor. Rinse, repeat.

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  11. Good lord. Why are men insane? Really? This is insane.

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  12. awwww, Anonymous 9:45, how sweet you are. And so totally worldly wise and completely logical since birth too!

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  13. This one is boring.
    This is just sad typical break-up stuff.
    Blah, blah, blah.
    I wanna read about boiling pet bunnies.

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  14. As far as religion goes Im a heinz 57. My mother was protestant, my father was Jewish, and the cantor in the temple. They sent me to Catholic school... I identify myself as jewish but I celebrate any holiday I want and how I want to celebrate it. As my father said, all the 'rules' are man made...

    As far as this idiot goes... he's got quite a fantasy going there wanting to know how and whom she's had sex with if any. Guess he doesnt want to go get a porn video, rather hear from someone else how it goes...

    This guy is such a loser and cant even make sense in his ravings. Good for Caitlin for questioning and 'seeing the light'.

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  15. Caitlin ultimately decided it was all a bunch of nonsense. Secure and confident in her decision, Caitlin completed a full and immediate transition to "atheist,"

    Applause.

    Caitlin finally relented and agreed to re-connect with him, as long as they remained friends ONLY.

    Retard.

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  16. Anon 9:45 AM

    As a woman who encountered serveral victims of rape and witnessed the damage inflicted thereby I find your comment highly offensive. It displays a disturbing lack of empathy. To say that it's in poor taste would be a gross understatement.

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  17. I was raised in the same kind of fundamentalist Christian environment, and I've been irrationally jealous and spied on girlfriend's emails, too. (And that's *after* becoming an atheist.) Not nearly as crazy and unrelenting as this guy, but the brain damage is the same.

    Her upbringing didn't prepare her for the emotions and problems she would experience in real relationships, and neither did his.

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  18. "Her upbringing didn't prepare her for the emotions and problems she would experience in real relationships, and neither did his."

    This. I was raised that way as well, and that statement rings loud and true.

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  19. &lanquo;When I was 19 I had to deal with a guy (not a Christian) with serious boundary issues. He wasn't computer savvy or I (and others) probably would've had issues along the lines of what Caitlin had with Daniel. I had only slightly more experience with guys than Caitlin when I went away to college so Mr. Boundaries-what-are-those was a real learning experience. He did know what 'I want to be friends' meant, though he seemed to attach the caveat 'but I'll be worn down eventually if you make sure I always know you want it to be more'. *deep sigh* He was also twelve years older than me, which was a whole other area of O_o.&ranquo;

    Ouch! Ouch ouch ouch OUCH!

    You just described me to a T. Right down to the age and the age difference.

    I don't know whether to be happy to have found this blog soon enough to recognise myself, or to be scared that someday it'll be me up there.

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  20. Here here. I was home schooled (though in a very non-sheltered, very cool hippie sort of way) and I knew loads of kids that were kept home by their christian fundamentalist parents to keep them away from the evil rest of society. The really evil bits like kids that know swear words or are vegetarian or have non-gun-totting political views.

    The ones I keep up with turned out OK, but a lot went through serious withdrawal when they hit the real world. Many are still religious Christians, but have become far more adjusted.

    Good going on Caitlin for passing her real-world crash course with an A.

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  21. As a woman who encountered serveral victims of rape and witnessed the damage inflicted thereby I find your comment highly offensive. It displays a disturbing lack of empathy. To say that it's in poor taste would be a gross understatement.

    BAWWWWWWWW I'm offended. The internet doesn't care.

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  22. Dear Anon 9:45,

    Stop being such an asshole. Man or woman, you're the type of person that gets featured on psychoticlettersfrommen: a completely self-centered, self-serving, and self-absorbant person.
    The internet does care, because it's full of people who actually have emotions (unlike you.)

    So go crawl back under the scum you came from and shut the hell up.

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  23. Holy moly. This guy was a mad creep-o.

    Also, is it just me or are most of these comments like crazy hostile.

    http://confessions-of-a-waitress.blogspot.com/

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  24. Having been forced to attend 4 (FOUR!!!)different church services every Sunday until I was 16, I saw the 'light.' My parents are quite unhappy now.

    I believe in God - I don't believe in religion.

    Nikki - I have been accused of boiling bunnies!!! LOL

    http://thesecretlifeoflurch.blogspot.com/

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  25. Anon 9:45 - the internet may not care if someone is offended, but the internet doesn't like trolls! Back under the bridge, if you please.

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  26. Anon 1.18

    Since you felt the need to reply, albeit in a higly immature manner, you do care. Hopefully, on some level, you realize that you're being an unfeeling ass...

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  27. Four different church services? No wonder that you're feed up with organized religion...

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  28. I blame Christianity for the entire situation.

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  29. "Heil Hitler"? What the hell?

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  30. what a creepo.

    things like this are what make me hate organized religion. i've seen the light. i believe in jesus and god, but i don't believe in religion. it screws people up and gives them unrealistic ideas about the world. sadly, caitlin and what's his face's bad relationship seem to have been a result of their upbringing.

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  31. it's fundamentalism, not Christianity that causes this crap. The need to control women has nothing to do with religion, but with men's insecurities.

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  32. Stop being such an asshole. Man or woman, you're the type of person that gets featured on psychoticlettersfrommen: a completely observant person.

    Corrected.

    The internet does care, because it's full of people who actually have emotions (unlike you.)

    Wishful thinking. Failure.

    Since you felt the need to reply, albeit in a higly immature manner, you do care.

    Nope.

    Hopefully, on some level, you realize that you're being an unfeeling ass...

    Don't give a shit. Keep BAWWWWWWWing.

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  33. For the next 8 months every time he saw me on campus sidewalk he'd give me a Nazi salute and say "Heil Hitler!"

    Neo-fascist slut!

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  34. Anon 9:45 and 6:00,

    y'know, the internet wouldn't care if you were the next featured blood and gore pic on /b/ or encyclopedia dramatica's "offended" page. So I don't quite see your point.

    and "completely observant people" get featured on PLFM. BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

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  35. Gosh... Daniel is sooo similar to my ex-psychotic-bf. He also hacked and internet stalked me! AND went through my phone on a regular basis. Men can be such asswipes...

    On a seperate note, yes, I would also like to read more bunny-boiling type psychotic letters if they're available, Weas.

    Cheers.
    -Helen

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  36. Psssst. Caitlin is texting Daniel again. And the Hitler bit? She actually kind of digs it. When Daniel adopts the Goebbels limp, OMG! Katy bar the door......

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  37. Sweet motherhumping crapspackle, where do these idiots come from? *sigh*

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  38. heh, again, the need to reply sorta makes the whole rebel nihilist thing void.

    About home schooling and fundamentalist christianity:

    To an cultural outsider; european atheist with lutheran roots; homeschooling is a rather curious practise. It appears to be based on the idea that evil is somehow contagious and knowledge spoils the innocent. Yet according to (some) christian dogma, sin is inherent to man. Colour me confused.

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  39. @Anon 9:45 AM

    That's your wanking material, isn't it? Go back to your bunk and leave the rest of us out of it.

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  40. I remembering going to a Fundy church, college. Fundamentalism is all about power and control. It does toxic things to you self esteem and overall mental health! I am now a confirmed Agnostic.

    As soon as I read he is a Fundamentalist I knew this was not going to turn out right!

    I am glad Caitlin came to her senses before it became violent!

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  41. Don't be too hard on your upbringing Caitlin, from your post your folks must've raised you pretty decently. Or you're a fast learner. Either way, you handled it better than most.

    I've had some dealings with home schooled kids. Some Wiccan and some Christian (oddly only those two). It's kind of funny that if the folks who did it for religious reasons, whether Christian or Wiccan, were to actually talk to each other outside of religion they would find they have a lot in common. Crazy holds no religious affiliation.

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  42. Anon 9:45 - I know you don't give a crap what I think, but the feeling's mutual, so don't trouble yourself with responding. However, I'd like to point out that the follow-ups I've typically read here say something like "He still contacts me though I continue to ignore him". Even if she pauses long enough to tell him not to contact her anymore, it's a long way removed from agreeing to meet him somewhere remote so she can get raped, impregnated, and robbed.

    Second, as a woman who spend nine god-damned years as a fundie, and seven of those trying to make a marriage work with a very controlling husband, I'd like to point out that women CAN and DO learn from their early stupidity. My next several dating relationships were pretty healthy, and my marriage is a feminist's dream come true. Quit being a judgmental idiot because you won't be able to fix your own mistakes until you quit seeing them as blights on a person's whole character.

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  43. So I don't quite see your point.

    The point is it's true.

    and "completely observant people" get featured on PLFM.

    Truth!

    That's your wanking material, isn't it?

    It is. Expect a cream-filled donut in the mail.

    I know you don't give a crap what I think, but the feeling's mutual, so don't trouble yourself with responding.

    And you can't resist writing back.

    I'd like to point out that women CAN and DO learn from their early stupidity.

    LIES

    My next several dating relationships were pretty healthy, and my marriage is a feminist's dream come true.

    How's that going for you? Self-affirmation? Daily?

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  44. Hey, if you don't feed the trolls we all get to watch them starve to death =)

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  45. I'm curious as to how 'post a comment' became 'please be an jerk on my site'. Seriously, everyone just needs to get back to Daniel.

    The jackass who's supposed to be in focus.
    He needs to be smacked with the holy phallic symbol of Higher Power, so that maybe he can have an ephipany on what an ass he's always been and repent his assholeish ways.

    As far as Caitlin goes, I'm proud she finally got her head out of her ass. We've all been there, some of us just never escape.

    As far as the religion goes, it's not just Fundamentalists that screw with people's brains. Personally, it's all organized religion. I was raised Christian, and was taught that women were to be obediant to the men and that female sexuality was a 'sin'.

    Needless to say, how you're raised affects your relationships more than you'll ever want to admit.

    PS: I love 'sinning' now.

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  46. Anon: I don't write for your consumption, but to counterpoint your assininity and point out things that normal, rational people can comprehend. That it stokes your ego is an unwelcome, but tolerable, side effect. As I said, I really and truly don't care what you think of me or my life.

    Except when you call me a liar. You have NO FUCKING IDEA what my life was or is. And truly, as with so many other ex-fundies here, it has turned around. I DID learn a sharp lesson my very first year in that unfortunate marriage. However, it took me seven years to get out because I internalized that mistake, just as you'd apparently have me continue to do. I thought it was my character, and my character, my destiny. Not so. It was a youthful error in judgment, which I perpetuated.

    I can't convince you that life's great now - I didn't seriously expect to in the first place. Everyone who matters knows that my decisions have taken a decidedly better turn in the nine years since my divorce. But go ahead and believe what you want. If you truly feel that character is constant, I must assume yours is. That being the case, I cannot talk you out of any mistakes or delusions you carry with you, and frankly, it's not worth the time.

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  47. This:

    leaving Caitlin free to venture out into the world and whore it up in the hugging department.

    ... made me laugh out loud. So did this:

    and what were her personal feelings regarding her free-for-all fuck-a-thon of an internship?

    As for Daniel, what an asshat. I'd blame it on the religion, but there are so many guys like Daniel, and they come from all backgrounds.

    I love how even his "dumping" her was controlling and manipulative. He was trying to punish her for changing her religion. He expected she'd come crawling back, begging for his acceptance, and of course changing her religion back, which was what he wanted. Unfortunately, she realized she was better off without him, so his plan backfired. Sorry, Daniel! Sucks to be you!

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  48. Wow, I have an ex-David who is about at that maturity level, except he's a pathological liar!

    Isn't it interesting how Christians react to someone spurning their deity? It's like THEY are the ones being personally spurned, when all you've done is decide to not believe their mythos any longer. Sigh. Repugnicans act the same way, I've noticed.

    Living in his own little world, isn't he?

    Congrats, Caitlin, I hope your life and choices continue to mature and improve!

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  49. Artemis - I live in Europe now, and I understand why homeschooling seems weird to you - most Europeans have no idea how awful American public education can be. I agree that the Christian keep the kids home so they dont get corrupted are just nutty, but many families homeschool so their kids can get a decent education without going bankrupt from private school. It worked for me - I finished my MSc in London when I was 20, having never been to a day of "normal" school.

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  50. Artemis:

    Nihilism isn't rebellious unless you're being a nihilst to get attention. :O

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  51. P.S.

    I know you probably don't mean nihilism in that context, I'm just being a smartass. :D

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  52. Ooooh, man. I had my share of creeps like that when I was a Christian. "God told me we should be together." brings back soooo many memories. It's amazing how many men God was trying to set me up with.

    If I'd been smarter back then, instead of spurning them I should have tried for a big polyandryst orgy. Woulda been fun times.

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  53. This is the story of a fucked-up guy made more fucked-up by a fucked-up religion, and the girl who thankfully jettisoned all the crap including him and got on with living her life.

    Julia M:

    "non-gun-toting political views"

    Got a problem with guns? Guns = free-range organic meat whenever you want it and the game is accessible. It's just a more sophisticated version of what our prehistoric forebears did. Alternatively, they can win you a nice, shiny medal round your neck every four years or so, and the adulation of your countrymen.

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  54. hey anons, you sound like fun. hows about you and me get together at my place? you bring the meat hooks and molten iron and i'll bring the machetes, turkey carvers, and the wild boars. we'll do our thing. i'll end up getting off on whatever pictures the /b/tards come up with, and you'll, well, it doesn't really matter what happens to you. you'll be done, that's for sure.

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  55. Anon 10:07, if you note carefully what the other anon notes as "truth" and "lies" you will shrewdly observe that it is, in fact, not personal, but Anon 9:45 is tragically stuck in "backwards" world in which words don't really mean what the dictionary indicates... A4:42 can keep that in mind during their charming little outing together too.



    as for the anons up above writing "Her upbringing didn't prepare her for the emotions and problems she would experience in real relationships, and neither did his." yes, very true. Pretty sure Daniel was crazy made not crazy born, not that mattered to me when I got out. Glad you two saw the light and, as Daniel has gotten together with a former friend of mine with even less experience with guys than I, I hope for her sake he does as well. She'd never even had a male friend before him, and of course believes I'm evil for breaking his little heart so--not talking much to me. From the little bits I hear now, they pretty much have an "ego/martyr" relationship going on, you know, the one fundamentalists encourage with their "woman submit!" doctrines.

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  56. This guy was jaw-dropping batshit insane..Its not just the religious aspect of the relationship, it was HIM. There's plenty of Christian men who take responsibility for their actions and are well aware of those results. Its called W I S D O M.

    Caitlin? So glad you are free from that and hopefully in a far better and healthier relationship.

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  57. had a sister-in-law (now an out-law), who announced to her fundamentalist congregation that her clock was ticking and she needed to marry someone in the church that year. A lovely wacko approached after services, they got engaged and started dating. Four children and ten years later, said wacko is out of the pic and sister out-law has become a bitter and nasty(ier) version of herself.

    Good for you, Caitlin, to have survived.

    Haven't seen in any of the New Testament teachings (I went to Baptist Bible school) where it says women must subjugate themselves. Frankly, I find fundamentalism a dangerous fraud - mainly derived from faulty interpretation of OLD testament teachings that attract psychopaths because they have easy prey in the believers.

    wwjd? Run!

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  58. Yeah, I am a Christian and never has my church taught me or my husband to act the way this guy did... the teachings are to love and respect one another as much as we love and respect ourselves. This guy is just whacky and is using religion as a facade for horrible actions. People here who are sterotyping all Christians as being the same should ask themselves if they would do the same about someone's race, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, age, etc.

    In any case, I am glad Caitlyn put a stop to it (as best she could). Hopefully, if any good came out of her expereince it's that she is wiser and will hopefully find better relationships in the future (and know the warning signs of when to end things).

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  59. OH JESUS CHRIST, YOU PEOPLE, don't feed the fucking trolls! :( Have you learned nothing? These guys sit and wait for you to respond so they can go ahead and make an even MORE offensive statement just to see you riled up! Jeez. If no one had responded to that initial trolly comment, this bridge-lurker wouldn't be spewing his stank everywhere right now.

    *facepalm*

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  60. Anon8:34, I'm very glad your church didn't teach that. Mine had elements that DID, ok? All the other commenter talking about the influence of fundamentalist teachings in creating and sustaining relationship problems are talking from personal experience or things they have carefully researched. And, no, no one's saying ALL Christians are like that, but some ARE saying the pattern, the structure, the organization, churches claiming "authority" etc. lead to abuse.

    Religion is a mindvirus-- sometimes it mutates into a benign, even symbiotic form, but the belief systems it needs to maintain control on it's host and jump from host to host are often intensely virulent and dangerous.

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  61. STEPHEN ROOT IS A KLINGON!

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  62. I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet:

    I hope Caitlin changed all her passwords if she kept her accounts. The best passwords are at least 8 characters long, preferably longer if you can. A good combination of uppercase and lowercase letters, symbols and numbers should be used. I use phrases for ease of memory. A nice example would be eatMYshorts=25. Never use personal information in these, like your pet's name or any numbers from your birthdate/social security number/etc. If Daniel knows his stuff, he could brute force or even guess the passwords to your accounts if your passwords are weak.

    Even though it seems it's been a while since Daniel was doing his creepazoid song and dance, this is good information for anyone to know, especially if you find out your accounts have been compromised.

    /end geekery

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  63. Team Estrogen 1, Jesus 0. - snorted diet coke. It was worth it.

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  64. I don't write for your consumption

    But you're still compelled to write!

    I really and truly don't care what you think of me or my life. Except when you call me a liar.

    Still trying to validate yourself. Insecure!

    You have NO FUCKING IDEA what my life was or is. [...] I DID learn a sharp lesson [...] I can't convince you that life's great now

    Still affirming yourself to us! lol

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  65. hey anons, you sound like fun. hows about you and me get together at my place? you bring the meat hooks and molten iron and i'll bring the machetes, turkey carvers, and the wild boars. we'll do our thing. i'll end up getting off on whatever pictures the /b/tards come up with, and you'll, well, it doesn't really matter what happens to you. you'll be done, that's for sure.

    Internet tough guy and hollow threats, violent ideations. Only if you'll let us bring and use our butt plugs.

    ReplyDelete
  66. anon 11:10

    first sentence, meet mirror.

    second, have em in before you arrive.

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  67. But guys, don't you know from reading "Twilight" that when a guy snoops on his girlfriend, it's only because he TOTALLY LOVES HER? Snooping is SO ROMANTIC!

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  68. I'm happily ignoring the trolls, vhile reading interesting comments and humming the "hills are alive with the sound of music".

    Julia M.

    Colour me impressed. A master of science at age 20?! Well done. Your parents must be awesome. I mean, taking the place of a teacher is hardly a easy task and especially not when it's your kid. That's actually the fact that I find most mindboogling: That people feel comfortable taking on that responsability. But of course, when bankrupcy and/or an insufficently educated child is the only remaining option, you suck it up.

    When you say that american education is awfull are you referring to teaching methods, security issues, unhealthy working conditions or all of the above?

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  69. Anon 11:31

    heh, nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that Edward Cullen is creeptastic...

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  70. Hey jemand. (Anon 8:34 here) I think we had some sort of disconnect here. I was directing my statements at the people who were casting ALL Christians in the same light--and there were a few who were not speaking from personal expereince (or at least didn't indicate they were).

    Personal experience about a specific sect of Christianity or any religion for that matter and discussing how it had negative effects on your life is one thing, but to group all the people in all the sects of a very large religion is another.

    Sorry to get off on the relgious tangent. What Weseal did (with mocking this guy for hiding behind a facade of religion isn't offensive... In fact, I'd say it's that jerk Daniel who was stalking Caitlyn who was offensive). But to me when commenters started expanding on that to include generalizations about everyone that followed the same religion Daniel "claimed" to practice that it started to grate.

    By the way, this is my first timeposting to any of the Why Women Hate Men things (well second technically). Great /funny blog! If Weasle ever writes a book of this stuff, I'm buying it.

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  71. second, have em in before you arrive.

    That's the idea! They're going into your mouth later. Delicious.

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  72. That's the idea! They're going into your mouth later. Delicious.

    Exactly! Everyone arrives with one in the mouth and one in the butt and then we throw them all in a big pile and mix and match!

    then we run away from the psycho chain saw wielders. if you live, it'll be the most fucking awesome experience of your life.

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  73. This vaguely reminds me of a nut I dated once. One thing he did after I dumped him was somehow dug up an old forum account of mine (I still don't know how because I never told him about it). He had already been sending me hundreds of emails, had made me change my cell number, was calling my house everyday and so on.

    But when he found my super old forum account he went through ALL of my posts and became ENRAGED at what I wrote and of course sent me a long ranting email about it. Things he found offensive included a picture of me at the beach in my bathing suit(according to him I was showing off my body) and me talking about a crush on a guy I had (whom I hadn't spoken to in several years). One thing he wrote in the email when he found out about the crush was "AND WHO IS GARY??? WHY HAVE YOU NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT HIM BEFORE." How old was I when I used these forums? 14. When I was in 9th grade. Needless to say, many years before I even met him.

    When I was still dating him he would get insanely jealous over me talking to someone else, or just simply not paying attention to him. It got to the point where if I'd be talking to a friend (even female), it meant I "didn't care about him." Oh, and then he started making demands that I not pet my dog as long as he was still in the room. Dude had control issues and I dumped his psychotic ass. Which of course led to all the emails, phone calls, text messages, threats of suicide, random appearances at my house, contacting my friends and family, etc... What a big fucking psychotic baby. Waaaahhhhh -_-

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  74. Dear god. See, I grew up in a very conservative christian house and I had to go through some very similar things. This is why my daughter's going to be properly socialized with as many different religions and cultures as possible. I absolutely refuse to allow her to go through the same stuff I did.

    Caitlyn, good luck with your new life. ^_^

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  75. Artemis-

    Much of the issues in American education comes from a lovely something Bush did called No Child Left Behind. Sounds like a great idea at first, but the end consequences are yanking funding from schools that need it the most and trying to get kids who have individual strengths and weaknesses to past one kind of test. Teachers are getting fired and class sizes are increasing to the point where the teachers that don't get booted have too many heads and not enough help to get the kids past the stupid standardized testing.

    Yeah, it's a bloody mess, unfortunately. While this isn't all the problem, it's a big part of it. I wouldn't send my kid to a public school. I was homeschooled because of this... I would have been at a really crappy school, and I turned out fine, even though my parents tried to shelter me ;)

    As for the OP.... dang. My mom was raised fundie, and she got out of it, but she's still scary enough....

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  76. STEPHEN ROOT IS A KLINGON!

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  77. LOL @ Julia M "Here, here [sic]... I was home schooled"

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  78. The only time I've ever dated a Christian, he would interrupt romantic moments by breaking out in spontaneous 'thank you God, for bringing us together' prayer, while I just froze and hoped he wasn't expecting me to join in. When I ran (after a week or three), he would e-mail me to tell me that he was repenting because it had been 'sinful to assume I was his, while really I was God's', and praying that God would give us a happy ending anyway. To make matters worse, a friend started nagging me that it was un-Christlike to make this guy so unhappy and not give him another chance.

    I'm a (pretty liberal) Christian, but I find it horribly manipulative and wrong to drag God into these matters. Not to mention some of the other implications - imagine I *had* gone back to the guy in question, would that have been from my own free will or some divine mindwhammy? How could he have been OK with - even asked for - the latter?

    Anyway, I ended up completely losing my respect for the guy, which is a pity because he's really quite awesome and my type in many respects.

    By the way: Sardines is an absolutely hilarious game!

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  79. My sister met a Romanian guy from her Christian Union in her first week at uni. My sister being sheltered by religion and life choices, and not sociable with guys, accepted his offer of 'coming up for coffee' thinking that coffee was all he meant.

    He locked her in his room for hours and explained to her in various states of desperation that God had told him that she was meant to marry him. They had just met and she was locked in his room. For hours. Wondering what he was going to do next. Almost her first date, if you can call it that.

    Eventually she persuaded him to take her to the church and speak to the minister who had a 'frank discussion' with the guy about his behaviour. Eventually after sitting with the for a while, the minister told my sister she could leave and she never saw the creep again.

    It scared the hell out of her, but she grew up fast.

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  80. A lot of Christian dogma is based on the idea that women are evil temptresses, and that men are basically good and innocent beings just trying to keep to the straight and narrow. I have been to my sister’s church and listened, horrified, to the preacher talk about the evils and temptations of women. And the women in his congregation sat right there and nodded while their own pastor denounced them as evil for no other reason than being born women. So it makes sense that boys raised in that environment are mistrusting and misogynistic.
    That said, what a freak show!
    What the hell does a guy like this think? That creepitude is attractive? That snooping makes a woman fall in love again and want him back? Seriously, what the hell are these dudes thinking?

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  81. Yes, folks. Please stop feeding the limp-dick /b/tards. They aren't even original. It's all copypasta FFS. Boring. Weas, can you put out an ad for better trolls? These wankers are full of fail.

    As for Caitlin and douchenozzle boy Daniel--yikes. It's not just being raised Christian, or sheltered, or whatever. I've been told that I'm way too hard on guys who do this shit. "It just means he likes you," "He made a mistake," "He's a really nice guy, he didn't mean it, he feels HORRIBLE." I've learned to kick people like that in the face. (Figuratively, but one of these days. . .)

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  82. TornadoBaby

    Thank you wery much. Your response was most enlightning.

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  83. mmmmmmmm.... buttcheek buttcheek buttcheek....

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  84. Anon 4:33

    I'm more a of figurative shin kicker myself. I'm all for being compassionate, but at a distance if people are treating you like crap. No wonder women are confused. On one hand, you're told "oh shugs, he's just really into" and, on the other hand, "why didn't you leave him when he hit you the first time, you stupid girl, didn't you see the red flags?". In either case, there's not much compassion displayed towards the woman in question.

    Setting aside the humor and educational value of PLFM, if nothing else it makes me appreciate my decent and sane bf alot more.

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  85. Btw, these trolls come from 4chan.org, 7chan.org or 420chan.org or something like it. I'm sure they'd be THRILLED if you stopped by to visit.

    And remember, /b/ is where the fun stuff happens. Go there and talk as much as you want, and don't listen to the people trying to shut you up :D

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  86. Regarding Caitlin changing her passwords it would also be in her best interest (and she's probably already done it at this point) to have her computer checked out to make sure there's nothing unwelcome left on it. Worst case scenario would be to wipe everything out and start from scratch, adding things back with your backups.
    . . . . -RP

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  87. Sorry Anon, 5:53, as much as I would just love to pay the trolls a visit at their dark little hidey-holes, I much prefer the company of adults. ;D

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  88. The chans are the crusty herpes sore of the internet. Or it would be, if anyone was charitable enough to fuck a /b/skank. AFAIK, there is no Mother Theresa of fucking.

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  89. I love the sardine game. Played it alot as a kid.

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  90. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who finds the Edward/Bella/Twilight thing creepy.

    My 12 YO daughter goes to school with a bunch of girls who are Twilight fans. When I told my daughter that the books center on an unhealthy love between a girl and a vampire (complete with Bella acting borderline suicidal when Edward leaves her, and when they are together Edward verbally and emotionally abuses her), my daughter lost interest in ever picking up the books. She tried to explain this to the girls in her class, and has lost friends because of this. I feel bad for those girls thinking that this is the sort of relationship that they should aspire to have.

    I also have a 30 YO acquaintence who loves the books. When I mentioned my reservations about this relationship, she sighed and talked about how romantic it was, and how it was a sign that Edward "really loved Bella". She is married to a man who dominates and emotionally abuses her. So there ya go...

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  91. UGH... I won't go NEAR those books.

    More fodder for men to act dumb, because they think it will get them dates. And more unhealthy crap for girls.

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  92. what the hell does this have to do with fundamentalism? what if this kid was just effed up in the head? granted fundies have a higher probability of that, but come on. this is just grasping at connections to craziness and christianity. it just sounded like a girl having a hard time with a scorned lover. happens all the time.

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  93. This is the lamest blog entry I've ever read....

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  94. You are lucky it didn't end in violence. I'd move far away.

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  95. This story echoes a previous relationship of mine where a girl manipulated me constantly to the point where she had me convinced i was mentally ill and that i was in her debt. I fell for her lies of abuse and suffering to the point i felt i couldnt leave her for her own safety. It was only after leaving the country for a few months i could seperate myself from her control. But thankfully a year later i am in a healthy relationship.

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  96. Wow, that actually makes sense when you think about it!

    RT
    www.real-privacy.net.tc

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  97. She only got what she asked for read "The Secret" . She manifest this entire reality herself and has no one to blame but herself. The law of attraction people thats the part she is missing. She will continue in this pattern for the rest of her life unless she wakes up.

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  98. Sounds almost exactly like an experience I had with a girl years ago. Except she only claimed to be mildly into religion and I never hid my atheism. This also played out at work not at school so she was fired and I got a PFA. This all seemed to be triggered when I found she installed a key-logger on one of my computers and confronted her about it. The conversation went "hey, I found a key logger on my computer that posted to a text file called (girl's name) what the fuck is up with this?" "How can you expect me to trust someone who doesnt believe in GOD?! Oh why did I ever get involved with someone so alien?!" then it got nasty.

    Hopefully this is the last occurrence of this kind for Caitlin. Unfortunately these relationships are often the result of whom the person seeks in a companion.

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  99. Wait wait I have a lot to say about this! *MY* comment about this story matters most, and it is so creative and unique, it must be posted! HERE IS MY OPINION!!!

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  100. Atheism is just another relegion. The truth is no one has any evidence for or against "God". No one agrees on what that word means anyway and without a definition its just a noise. More people have died fighting over what that word means than anything else, and without ever reaching a consensuse. For me a God that would allow his own children to be tortured for all eternity is a monster beyond all imagining. No cruelty however extreme compairs to this so we have a God who neatly justifies our own terrible actions by outdoing them. This is convieneint for tyrants

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  101. Reminds me of my ex. Just that he also wanted money from me. Because he saw the relationship as an investment....anyways, doesn't make sense.

    He stopped after i threatned to go to the police.

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  102. 'Daniel' reminds me of someone I knew in college. We hit it off very well, and I considered dating him, until I realized that he never wanted to do things in groups - he wanted me to himself, period. I may have been a home schooled Christian fundamentalist, but I knew enough to run from that one in a big hurry. I later found out that his ex had been keeping an eye on the situation and was going to step in and warn me if I started officially dating him - apparently he could be *very* controlling.

    BTW, if you find yourself in or at a church that degrades women, minorities, other religions, certain political views, or anything else, RUN. There really are good traditional churches that don't devalue people. Unfortunately there are a lot out there that do.

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  103. testing 123

    so is this blog closed?

    ReplyDelete
  104. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "possibly".

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